# Another bird identification -- blue-gray raptor?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 25, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687 "2013-04-25T18:35:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/1 "2013-04-25T18:35:13Z")
The other day I got very close (15-20 feet) to a large bird in a low tree. I immediately realized this was an unusual bird (by my standards) and tried to get a good look; unfortunately shady lighting conditions and blowing tree leaves interfered a bit (and I was walking two dogs who had to be persuaded to change direction suddenly). I saw the bird from the side profile at first; said bird flew away a while I was circling around to a good squint at his or her front.
Rough descriptors as I recall them:
[ul][li]Large (the size of my forearm from elbow to knuckle; probably 14-16 inches from top of head to tail)[/li][li]Very erect posture, intrepid stare[/li][li]Dusky gray or bluish-gray on the back[/li][li]Pale or cream on the (flat) belly, definitely rust-colored barring on the legs/belly area but gently faded, not prominent[/li][li]Location: Northern Virginia near Washington DC[/li][li]Time of year: Now (April)[/ul][/li]
What I could not, or did not, clearly observe:
[ul]
[li]Beak shape or color[/li][li]Extent of barring on underside[/li][li]Feet[/li][li]Wing shape (rounded or pointed) as he/she flew off (kicking myself for missing that)[/ul][/li]
I think this HAD to be a raptor, from the size, posture, and fearlessness. I did not see a prominent eagle-type beak, but some falcons just seem to have little sharp black beaks, which I would have had a harder time seeing.
Looking at [Whatbird.com](http://Whatbird.com) I see a very limited selection of candidates. ALL of them show much more distinct barring (and often prominent other markings) than I recall. I didn’t see any wing bars, no facial stripes, and the rusty barring underneath was very gentle and faded. The bird I saw looked too big to be a kestrel, IMHO, and lacked the very dramatic markings that the pictures show males having. All the others I looked at online yesterday (sharp-shinned hawks, gyrfalcons, etc) have, if I recall, very sharp barring underneath.
My _guess_ would be I saw a juvenile or female…something. \* Maybe\* a merlin? (Juvenile female Peregrine Falcon)? This bird lacked (as far as I could see) the dramatic facial stripe I see on pictures of Peregrines, but maybe juvenile females lack that? Googling merlins, I see much more dramatic markings than I recall.
My primary impression of this bird was a _very_ even dusky pale blueness over the back, tail, wings, and head, and an exaggeratedly vertical posture. Nothing I’ve looked up so far seems to match.
I very much wanted to get a better look and maybe a photograph, dangit.
Any ideas?
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### Author:  [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/2 "2013-04-25T18:52:31Z")
Cooper’s or Sharp-shinned Hawk ?
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/3 "2013-04-25T19:01:16Z")
Yes, the blue grey make me think of a [Cooper’s Hawk](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=coopers+hawk&start=133&sa=X&hl=en&biw=1304&bih=671&tbm=isch&tbnid=Vi0DSV2F2YrQaM:&imgrefurl=http://palmbeachcountynaturally.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/exciting-weekend/coopers-hawk-9-14-2012-0166/&docid=Wfq77w0SWly0WM&imgurl=http://palmbeachcountynaturally.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/coopers-hawk-9-14-2012-0166.jpg%253Fw%253D619&w=619&h=900&ei=2n15Uf_XOaLD2QWKloHABA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=489&vpy=298&dur=2641&hovh=271&hovw=186&tx=118&ty=116&page=5&tbnh=152&tbnw=109&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:58,s:100,i:178). Did you see the eyes? Theirs can be surprisingly red, although many of the pictures I just looked up don’t seem quite as deep.
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### Author:  [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/4 "2013-04-25T19:03:36Z")
Maybe a [Mississippi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Kite) [Kite](https://www.google.com/search?q=mississippi+kite&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=XH15UdioONKE2QWcnYHACw&sqi=2&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1360&bih=627) ??
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### Author:  [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/5 "2013-04-25T19:06:17Z")
[Peregrine Falcon](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1AxqocVUpHc/T256Cng4meI/AAAAAAAAAMY/8h8LjlWzufc/s1600/Peregrine_Falcon_Feeding_by_runique.jpg)
[Cooper’s Hawk](http://www.birdsofwestwood.com/images/birdpics/coopershawkE.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Archaic\_Entity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archaic_Entity)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/6 "2013-04-25T19:06:22Z")
I’m no expert, but I’ve definitely done some digging when I see strange birds around here.
Um… my guess is that it’s probably a merlin like you suggested, but here are a couple of pictures of the front.
[http://www.arkive.org/merlin/falco-columbarius/image-G92508.html](http://www.arkive.org/merlin/falco-columbarius/image-G92508.html)
This second one, minus the fuzz, seems more like what you indicate with the faded rusty barring: [http://gallery.photo.net/photo/223422-lg.jpg](http://gallery.photo.net/photo/223422-lg.jpg)
Seem like a match at all?
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### Author:  [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/7 "2013-04-25T19:07:04Z")
Or it might have been a belted kingfisher, especially if there is water nearby. They are slaty above, whitish beneath, and very intrepid looking and quite large.
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### Author:  [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/8 "2013-04-25T19:15:36Z")
Kites, Peregrines and Merlins are unlikely to be seen perching in a tree.
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### Author:  [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/9 "2013-04-25T19:55:37Z")
My guess is also Peregrine Falcon or Cooper’s Hawk. Peregrines are variable in color and patterning on the ventral side but pretty constant in having distinctly gray upper parts. Cooper’s Hawks as adults are also distinctly gray above, but the undersides tend to be conspicuously marked. Both birds could be considered common in your area.
Mississippi Kites don’t really measure up to your “cubit” size description, and I would call one’s appearance by you quite unusual. The larger Swallowtailed Kite is a good match for general coloration, but I don’t think one would ever stray that far north.
If your bird flew away into the forest, I’d give more weight to Cooper’s. If it went skyward, I’d give much more weight to Peregrine. And just on general principles, I’ve seen far more Peregrines ignore human company than Cooper’s. If we’re taking bets, my money goes to Peregrine.
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### Author:  [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/10 "2013-04-25T20:22:41Z")
Another vote for Cooper’s Hawk or Sharp-Shinned Hawk. The two species can be difficult to differentiate, though, and they overlap over much of their respective ranges. I wouldn’t rule out sharp-shinned solely on the basis of the banding pattern on the belly; take a look at [the pictures on this page](http://www.avianweb.com/sharpshinnedhawks.html) to see how different the patterns can appear.
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/11 "2013-04-25T21:51:54Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#):
>
> Kites, Peregrines and Merlins are unlikely to be seen perching in a tree.
I’ve seen quite a few Mississippi kites perched on trees, and close, too. Sitting on a near tree, they are truly majestic. Fits the description, except for the rust colored barring. Immatures have brown barring, but their legs are yellow in all stages.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/12 "2013-04-25T22:26:32Z")
A [male](http://jimcoda.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/mg_1264-male-northern-harrier-point-reyes-national-seashore.jpg) [Northern Harrier](http://featheredphotography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/northern-harrier-1734.jpg) is another possibility. As you can see they are slate grey and can have very faint barring below. If flying the [white rump](http://pcdn.500px.net/3555848/15ba4c1be0261b9e9be701d1e2723e8f1d0d18d0/4.jpg) is unmistakeable on either sex, at least if you are at the right angle to see it. If you’re close enough you can also see they have a partial facial disc, like an owl married a red-wing.
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### Author:  [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/13 "2013-04-25T23:29:18Z")
Raptors are extremely difficult to positively identify on sight, and I never trust a “bird guide” who never says “I don’t know” when calling a raptor. But Cooper’s and Peregrine are good guesses in an areas where people are living in close proximity,
Falcons have bent, pointed wings in flight, and Hawks straight and rounded at the tips. Peregrine falcons have a conspicuous facial pattern, absent in the Cooper’s Hawk.
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### Author:  [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/14 "2013-04-26T13:14:44Z")
Thanks for the thoughts. Yeah, the imprecision of my observation left a lot to be desired. It’s also possible that the color was distorted by the lighting conditions; perhaps what I saw as blue was just gray.
I’m certain the bird wasn’t a kingfisher, for what that’s worth. A lot of the other suggestions are likely, but the pictures generally show more pronounced markings than I recall.
I wish I’d noted the wingtips in flight, that would clearly differentiate a Peregrine from the hawks.
The Cooper’s or Sharp-shinned sound highly likely. They seem quite similar to me, although the Sharp-shinned is smaller. [Avianweb.com](http://Avianweb.com) sizes a female Sharp-shinned at 11.5 to 14.5 in., a male Cooper’s at an average of 15.5 in (female is larger in both species).
Based on further nosing around, I found a picture which strongly resembles what I remember, so I’ll make my best guess:
**Male Cooper’s Hawk, possibly juvenile.**
[Check the bottom six pictures on this page](http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Accipiter+cooperii&guide=Birds), especially [this one](http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20p?see=I_JSA1349&res=640).
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### Author:  [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/15 "2013-04-26T17:57:04Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#):
>
> Kites, Peregrines and Merlins are unlikely to be seen perching in a tree.
I dunno about kites (excepting the Charlie Brown type), but peregrines and merlins are very likely to be seen perching in trees (and I’ve got many pictures to prove it). They seem to particularly like high, bare branches, but I’ve seen merlins with prey hanging out on lower branches under cover.
Still, if the OP’s initial impression of the bird was that it was large, then it’s probably not a merlin. They’re actually on the small side as raptors go.
Oh – how fast did the bird fly away? Was it kind of leisurely, or was it bat-out-of-hell fast? Falcons like the merlin and the kestrel are ridiculously quick.
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### Author:  [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/16 "2013-04-26T19:50:36Z")
> [@Finagle](#):
>
> Oh – how fast did the bird fly away? Was it kind of leisurely, or was it bat-out-of-hell fast? Falcons like the merlin and the kestrel are ridiculously quick.
Just a straight flat sail toward the nearby treeline, I’d say a fast glide, not blazing speed, minimal flapping.
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### Author:  [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/17 "2013-04-26T20:27:43Z")
> [@Sailboat](#):
>
> Just a straight flat sail toward the nearby treeline, I’d say a fast glide, not blazing speed, minimal flapping.
Then I think your “best guess” was correct – Cooper’s Hawk. And I’ll take back my money on Peregrine :).
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### Author:  [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/18 "2013-04-26T20:38:31Z")
It’s pretty hard to distinguish between Sharpies and Coopers, but the tail shape is one indicator - Sharp-shinned hawks have a squarer tip while perching, while a Coopers tail tip will look rounded, and has a wider white band at the tip. Nice ID info [here](http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutBirdsandFeeding/accipiterIDtable.htm).
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/19 "2013-04-26T20:52:38Z")
> [@araminty](#):
>
> It’s pretty hard to distinguish between Sharpies and Coopers, but the tail shape is one indicator - Sharp-shinned hawks have a squarer tip while perching, while a Coopers tail tip will look rounded, and has a wider white band at the tip. Nice ID info [here](http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutBirdsandFeeding/accipiterIDtable.htm).
As noted in the link, another distinguishing feature is that the Cooper’s head appears large compared to the body; whereas, the sharp-tailed’s head appears small.
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### Author:  [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bird-identification-blue-gray-raptor/656687/20 "2013-04-27T17:25:12Z")
> [@Finagle](#):
>
> I dunno about kites (excepting the Charlie Brown type), but peregrines and merlins are very likely to be seen perching in trees (and I’ve got many pictures to prove it). They seem to particularly like high, bare branches, but I’ve seen merlins with prey hanging out on lower branches under cover.
(also **barbitu8** )
On trees yes, but not in trees like Cooper’s and Sharp-shinned.