# Another bit of bastardly marketing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 1, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390 "2013-07-01T20:49:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/81 "2013-07-05T15:21:13Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And many who cut them into sixteen parts for a month’s worth of snacks from each convenient and guaranteed-freshness foil pouch. > > Your endless defense of food labeling and insistence that the nutrition panel absolves all other faults is… amusing. It’s all bullshit of the very highest order and we both know it. Oh great. The crazy brigade has arrived. When are you going to release that world-changing manifesto that you’ve been promising? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/82 "2013-07-05T15:21:54Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No, she’s not. I’ve already cited the FDA regulations that are used to determine portion size. The Canadian Food Inspection agency has similar guidelines [here](http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/guide/ch6e.shtml#tab6-3). > > And I’m sure there are thousands of people out there who open pop tarts and give one to each of their kids as a serving. I have to wonder about how much input the food industry had into the writing of those regulations. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/83 "2013-07-05T15:58:02Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > And I’m sure there are thousands of people out there who open pop tarts and give one to each of their kids as a serving. I thought the point was that it’s deliberately misleading. That you have to read carefully, study, and calculate. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/84 "2013-07-05T16:04:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Cereals are another example. The serving size is often 1/2 cup. Who pours half a cup of cereal into their bowl? Or who eats half a cup of ice cream? You have to note the serving size.. I dunno. I’m looking at a box of Cheerios. Serving size: 1 cup. Sounds about right to me. Let’s see Kellogg’s corn flakes? Yep, same there: 1 cup. If anything might be a 1/2 cup, I’d guess oatmeal, as that’s about what I’d consider a serving size of oatmeal. And as for ice cream, 1/2 cup sounds about right, to me, too, if not a bit much. I’m not a tiny person, either. I’m around 175 lbs. What some people think is a single serving of ice cream is insane to me. Even the smallest size at an ice cream parlor to me seems closer to two servings. Maybe it’s because I don’t have much of a sweet tooth. I mean, yeah, if you’re making an entire meal out of ice cream, I could see 1/2 cup being not enough, but as a dessert after a meal or a snack? 1/2 cup is plenty. Seriously, those little Haagen-Dazs single serving cups they sell–that’s considered “too small” by most people to be a single serving? That seems just right, and sometimes I’ll even share it. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/85 "2013-07-05T16:06:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I thought the point was that it’s deliberately misleading. That you have to read carefully, study, and calculate. What calculations are done for a single pop tart? None. Is your complaint that they don’t wrap each one individually? ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/86 "2013-07-05T16:16:43Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Cat is correct. I’m still sitting here in my jammies, but the example that _pops_ (as it were) into my mind is Pop Tarts. They come with two together in a sealed foil envelope. At least the unfrosted strawberry ones do; that’s all I buy. The nutritional information (like all nutritional information labels) refers to serving size. The serving size is ONE, even though they come with two packaged together in the foil wrapper. Like you’re going to open the wrapper and eat ONE. . . _shrug_ **I do.** The other one is for another breakfast, on another day. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/87 "2013-07-05T16:20:43Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I thought the point was that it’s deliberately misleading. That you have to read carefully, study, and calculate. But since nobody but you knows how many pop-tarts you plan to eat, you’d have to do that no matter what serving size was listed. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/88 "2013-07-05T17:07:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > What calculations are done for a single pop tart? None. > > Is your complaint that they don’t wrap each one individually? I don’t have a complaint. And now I’m bored. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/89 "2013-07-05T17:10:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > My response was to you basically calling me a liar. I know what I’ve seen. I thought about it later, and what I should have said is that you are telling me that I’m wrong, but I know what I’ve seen (in my 28 years of shopping for my own food). I think _you’re_ the one making extraordinary claims, **Labrador Deceiver** - that the FDA or a similar agency is controlling the labelling on all food people are eating. My local grocery stores have any number of foods that are imported from countries all around the world - you can see that they have retro-actively slapped a nutritional information label on the package. Hell, we can’t even regulate how much melamine is in food from China - you think they give a tiny little rat’s ass what the FDA or any other agency wants them to call a serving size? From my own kitchen this morning - two different brands of snack crackers: 1 - serving size 13 crackers, or 20 g. 2 - serving size 18 crackers, or 25 g. Breakfast cereal - 1 - 3/4 cup, 29 g. 2 - 1 cup, 28 g. 3 - 1/3 cup, 28 g. 4 - 1 cup, 54 g. 5 - 1/3 cup, 36 g. As for the same foods in two different measuring systems, I don’t have an example handy of that, so you can disregard that claim if you like. I know that I sighed in exasperation in the grocery store when I was trying to compare two different brands, and got two different measuring systems. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/90 "2013-07-05T17:56:36Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Oh great. The crazy brigade has arrived. Better than a cavilling apologist for the food industry, sitting with your folded hands and a smug declaration that you _put_ the infomation on the box, people. Yes, we’re all idiots for missing the carefully-engineered declaration on the rear label amid the babble and deception of everything else including the product’s color. > [@](#): > > When are you going to release that world-changing manifesto that you’ve been promising? Working on it in the other screen as you blather. Yes, I’m behind schedule. Sue me. Go read \*Salt Sugar Fat \*while you wait; it’s very close to the book that was to follow this one. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/91 "2013-07-05T19:10:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I thought about it later, and what I should have said is that you are telling me that I’m wrong, but I know what I’ve seen (in my 28 years of shopping for my own food). I think _you’re_ the one making extraordinary claims, **Labrador Deceiver** - that the FDA or a similar agency is controlling the labelling on all food people are eating. My local grocery stores have any number of foods that are imported from countries all around the world - you can see that they have retro-actively slapped a nutritional information label on the package. Hell, we can’t even regulate how much melamine is in food from China - you think they give a tiny little rat’s ass what the FDA or any other agency wants them to call a serving size? > > From my own kitchen this morning - two different brands of snack crackers: > 1 - serving size 13 crackers, or 20 g. > 2 - serving size 18 crackers, or 25 g. > > Breakfast cereal - > 1 - 3/4 cup, 29 g. > 2 - 1 cup, 28 g. > 3 - 1/3 cup, 28 g. > 4 - 1 cup, 54 g. > 5 - 1/3 cup, 36 g. > > As for the same foods in two different measuring systems, I don’t have an example handy of that, so you can disregard that claim if you like. I know that I sighed in exasperation in the grocery store when I was trying to compare two different brands, and got two different measuring systems. Yes, breakfast cereals contain varying weights, based on the number of grams contained in one dry cup. It’s outlined in the cite I provided. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/92 "2013-07-05T19:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > this is incidentally, my pet theory as to why the US is getting more obese; everything’s gotten bigger Well, all the FOOD has gotten bigger. The airline seats are shrinking. If we have the Shrink Ray available, why aren’t we using it as a weight loss tool? My own pet theory involves HFCS in so many foods today, but I’m willing to admit that your theory also appeals to me. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Actually I wonder if it wouldn’t be softer if it had cholesterol in it. Well, I’ve seen facial tissue with lotion added, and it’s advertised as being softer, so I guess TP might be softer if it had some sort of fat in it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/93 "2013-07-05T20:38:47Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Well, I’ve seen facial tissue with lotion added, and it’s advertised as being softer, so I guess TP might be softer if it had some sort of fat in it, too. Easy! Just eat perfectly safe and FDA-approved olestra, and your greasy feces will make the paper slide along smoothly. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/94 "2013-07-05T22:09:51Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Easy! Just eat perfectly safe and FDA-approved olestra, and your **greasy feces** will make the paper slide along smoothly. My bold. Good name for a band. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/95 "2013-07-06T14:50:52Z")
Today I bought a quart of Ben & Jerry’s ICE CREAM at the store. I purchased it as a special treat because it was on sale, and said “ICE CREAM” on it, as opposed to the “Frozen Dairy Dessert” that most ice cream must legally be labeled as, due to regulations and the precise definition of ‘ice cream’ required to qualify for that title. The ingredients list includes the following items, which I am not making up: Milk Cream Sugar Water (contains Sugar, Water.) Water Sugar Other stuff. What kind of bullshit is it that allows them to do this? I know WHY they’re doing it… because otherwise they’d have more Sugar and Water on the list, pushing those higher on the list and dropping Milk and Cream lower. But to think that you can just mix some ingredients before you mix the other ingredients, and somehow this is a DIFFERENT ingredient, is 100% bullshit, and they know it. It’s still pretty damn good ice cream! Reminded me of this article: [How Much is Inside a Can of Tuna Fish?](http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/tunafish/tunafish.html) > [@Rob Cockerham](#): > > A close inspection of the can revealed the labelling trick which I’d been fooled by. There were three ingredients: Tuna, water and broth! Instead of tuna having to be more than half of the weight, a third ingredient meant that it only had to be more than a third of the weight. I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/96 "2013-07-06T14:55:29Z")
> [@Phnord\_Prephect](#): > > Today I bought a quart of Ben & Jerry’s ICE CREAM at the store. I purchased it as a special treat because it was on sale, and said “ICE CREAM” on it, as opposed to the “Frozen Dairy Dessert” that most ice cream must legally be labeled as, due to regulations and the precise definition of ‘ice cream’ required to qualify for that title. That definition is that it must consist of at least 10% milkfat. The order of ingredients on their label has nothing to do with it. (If you want to see all the regulations [look here](http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=135.110).) Now why they have “sugar water” and “sugar” and “water” separate, I don’t know, but it doesn’t have anything to do with calling it “ice cream” vs " frozen dairy dessert." ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/97 "2013-07-06T15:57:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That definition is that it must consist of at least 10% milkfat. The order of ingredients on their label has nothing to do with it. (If you want to see all the regulations [look here](http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=135.110).) Now why they have “sugar water” and “sugar” and “water” separate, I don’t know, but it doesn’t have anything to do with calling it “ice cream” vs " frozen dairy dessert." Oh, yeah, no, I know that. The ‘ice cream’ label wasn’t the point; I enjoy frozen dairy desserts as much as the next person. My only issue is with their labeling sugar and water as three different things. They’re sooooo not. Not to mention the fact that there’s water in the milk and in the cream, making water certainly the first ingredient in a ‘real’ list. But that would apply to anything, pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/98 "2013-07-06T16:04:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The order of ingredients on their label has nothing to do with it. Semantically null. Food labeling bears about as much correspondence to reality as the Congressional Record does to what Congress says and does - that is, not a whole lot and with so many caveats, omissions, special terminology and hidden assumptions that it only exists to fulfill a technical requirement, not a functional one. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/99 "2013-07-06T16:48:43Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Semantically null. Food labeling bears about as much correspondence to reality as the Congressional Record does to what Congress says and does - that is, not a whole lot and with so many caveats, omissions, special terminology and hidden assumptions that it only exists to fulfill a technical requirement, not a functional one. What the hell are you babbling about? [FDA ingredients listing guidelines](http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm064880.htm#descend) are available at the click of a button to anybody who expends even a tiny amount of fact-finding effort. Or would you prefer they use directed information rays fired from their invisible black helicopters to beam the guidelines directly into your stupid brain? This information is only “hidden” from _people who don’t feel like looking._ ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390/100 "2013-07-06T16:54:53Z")
> [@Phnord\_Prephect](#): > > ..The ingredients list includes the following items, which I am not making up: > > Milk > Cream > Sugar Water (contains Sugar, Water.) > Water > Sugar > Other stuff. > … I’m skeptical that it says “Other stuff”. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-bit-of-bastardly-marketing/662390.md?page=6)