# Another botched execution **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930 "2014-07-24T13:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/21 "2014-07-24T14:49:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Money spent on the pursuance of justice is never wasted. If your argument is that we’re giving life sentences to people who _should_ be getting the death penalty, then I agree. > > _Happened_, past tense, as in “occurred once, but no longer”. All these convictions predate the widespread adoption of DNA evidence in trials. This isn’t justice. This is a stupid waste of taxpayer funds. They cut music and art classes for my children and then use it instead to pick people at random to allow the state to kill. In the meantime, I see no evidence at all that we won’t continue to execute innocent people. I have no idea why conservatives think the state can’t do anything right but somehow it can be trusted to determine who deserves to die. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/22 "2014-07-24T14:53:28Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > This isn’t justice. Of course it is. > [@](#): > > This is a stupid waste of taxpayer funds. The pursuance of justice is neither stupid nor wasteful. > [@](#): > > They cut music and art classes for my children and then use it instead to pick people at random to allow the state to kill. Then vote for reasonable tax rates so we don’t have to choose what essential programs to cut. > [@](#): > > In the meantime, I see no evidence at all that we won’t continue to execute innocent people. The state has no interest in executing innocent people. The state has a vested interest in _not_ executing innocent people. The state does not execute innocent people. > [@](#): > > I have no idea why conservatives think the state can’t do anything right but somehow it can be trusted to determine who deserves to die. Neither do I, but then, I’m a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/23 "2014-07-24T14:58:14Z")
As OJ can attest, juries sometimes get it wrong even with DNA results. Rich people can get acquitted or at least escape the death penalty with pricey lawyering. those who rely on public defenders, not so much. So we have a system whereby we’ll execute poor people, some of whom were innocent but that’s the price some of us are willing to pay to have their primitive need for vengeance satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/24 "2014-07-24T14:59:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Of course it is. The pursuance of justice is neither stupid nor wasteful. No it isn’t. When we waste funds, apply laws arbitrarily and run the risk of executing innocent people – that isn’t justice. That is just fucking stupid > [@](#): > > Then vote for reasonable tax rates so we don’t have to choose what essential programs to cut. How about we start with this one? It’s stupid, expensive, immoral and uncivilized. > [@](#): > > The state has no interest in executing innocent people. The state has a vested interest in _not_ executing innocent people. The state does not execute innocent people. And yet the state has done so. Go watch the PBS documentary I brought up. The man was executed because we didn’t understand how fires start or spread. No DNA involved actually. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/25 "2014-07-24T15:03:32Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > No it isn’t. When we waste funds, apply laws arbitrarily and run the risk of executing innocent people – that isn’t justice. That is just fucking stupid Then let’s apply the death penalty less arbitrarily and execute more of the people who deserve to die. Problem solved. > [@](#): > > How about we start with this one? It’s stupid, expensive, immoral and uncivilized. It’s stupid to allow people to live who do not possess the right to draw breath. Expense is not an issue when it comes to justice. It is not moral to waste resources on perpetuating life unworthy of life. It is not civilized to treat murderers better than they treated their victims. > [@](#): > > And yet the state has done so. Go watch the PBS documentary I brought up. The man was executed because we didn’t understand how fires start or spread. No DNA involved actually. I’m familiar with the case. I find the claims made after the fact to be biased and propagandistic. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/26 "2014-07-24T15:03:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The state does not execute innocent people. You’re better off sticking to your wildly stupid opinions than straying into the realm of wildly false facts. The state has and will inevitably continue to execute people who did not commit the crime of which they were accused. This is an irrefutable fact regardless of your opinion on the death penalty, or how much or little you give a shit about the innocent people being executed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/27 "2014-07-24T15:05:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The state has and will inevitably continue to execute people who did not commit the crime of which they were accused. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/28 "2014-07-24T15:09:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite? [Here are just a few.](http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/29 "2014-07-24T15:11:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite? Read this article: > **[Trial by Fire](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire)** > > From 2009: Cameron Todd Willingham was executed for a deadly case of arson. Was he innocent? The best science of the day said he did it. So Texas executed him. The best science today says the fire that killed his kids was an accident. So the guy lost his kids to fire and then lost his life to bad science and lousy politics. Where the fuck was the justice there? And what makes you think this sort of thing won’t continue to happen in the future? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/30 "2014-07-24T15:12:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [Here are just a few.](http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/) So it hasn’t happened once in the past ten years, then? Sounds to me like we’ve solved the problem and this is no longer an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/31 "2014-07-24T15:13:38Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Read this article: > > [Trial by Fire | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire) > > The best science of the day said he did it. So Texas executed him. The best science today says the fire that killed his kids was an accident. So the guy lost his kids to fire and then lost his life to bad science and lousy politics. Where the fuck was the justice there? And what makes you think this sort of thing won’t continue to happen in the future? The science has progressed, so that mistake won’t be made again (assuming a mistake was made in the first place). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/32 "2014-07-24T15:15:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So it hasn’t happened once in the past ten years, then? > > Sounds to me like we’ve solved the problem and this is no longer an issue. People have suddenly stopped giving false testimony? All defense attorneys are suddenly dedicated and competent and will bend every effort to clear their client? Prosecutors and police are suddenly corruption free and are all sterling examples of law enforcement ethics? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/33 "2014-07-24T15:15:17Z")
If you say you don’t give a shit, that would at least be honest. You’re a liberal like Gacy was a children’s entertainer. It ain’t your main gig. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/34 "2014-07-24T15:17:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > People have suddenly stopped giving false testimony? > > All defense attorneys are suddenly dedicated and competent and will bend every effort to clear their client? > > Prosecutors and police are suddenly corruption free and are all sterling examples of law enforcement ethics? Then name an innocent person who has been executed in the past ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/35 "2014-07-24T15:18:51Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > If you say you don’t give a shit, that would at least be honest. > > You’re a liberal like Gacy was a children’s entertainer. It ain’t your main gig. I am not aware that being a liberal requires me to coddle and have sympathy for unrepentant murderers. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/36 "2014-07-24T15:21:02Z")
I dunno, define “botched.” He’s dead, isn’t he? As are both of his victims. Given how difficult the road is to getting murderers on the table, I’d call it “Mission Accomplished.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/37 "2014-07-24T15:26:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then name an innocent person who has been executed in the past ten years. [Close enough, it was 10 1/2 years.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham) Rick Perry can claim credit for this one. If you think that prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, and juries are infallible then you are one gullible dude. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/38 "2014-07-24T15:34:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am not aware that being a liberal requires me to coddle and have sympathy for unrepentant murderers. It doesn’t require you to construct strawmen either, but you nonetheless line them up to bravely knock them down. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/39 "2014-07-24T15:35:25Z")
I frankly don’t understand why we bother with all the expensive chemicals. One .38 round at the base of the skull where the spine comes in will turn them off like a lightswitch. The round costs what…$0.50 or so? Helluva lot cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930/40 "2014-07-24T15:42:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I dunno, define “botched.” He’s dead, isn’t he? As are both of his victims. > > Given how difficult the road is to getting murderers on the table, I’d call it “Mission Accomplished.” Pretty much. Nor is there much evidence that he suffered - gasping while you die (unconscious) is not evidence that your death was botched. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-botched-execution/693930.md?page=3)