QFT.
Less so than almost anybody ever. But did we deserve to be better than him?
We are.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I start from the axiom that the death penalty is wrong, always and everywhere.* From there, it is no great leap to reach the conclusion that when a society engages in a practice that is wrong, always and everywhere, it is worsened.
*This starting point has the very great convenience that the axiom is objectively and undebatably factual.
Already happened nationally once in my life and it happened again in Illinois a couple years back.
I’m on board with the idea that American society is too good for you.
I fully admit to thinking that the death penalty should be doled out to the makers, sellers and users of leaf blowers, especially those inclined to use them at 7:30 in the morning on a Sunday right below my bedroom window.
That’s not how I remember the 80s and 90s. Most states were trying to keep their electric chairs, gas chambers, and firing squads, but the anti-DP crowd kept challenging these methods and pointed to the fact that lethal injection was more humane.
So states universally adopted lethal injection as the default method in order to stop these lawsuits. But now, lethal injection is said to be cruel and unusual punishment.
I’m all in favor of making the death penalty as painless as possible but mistakes will happen, and I’m dumbfounded by all of the “OMG He gasped while unconscious for two whole hours” complaints. I hate to break the bad news, but this guy suffered less than many of us will when we leave this world, even through natural causes. Shit happens, and it couldn’t have happened to a better guy.
Well then, prove it.
[Moderating]
I may be too anal about this, but if you’re going to elide part of a quote, please indicate with ellipses or similar indicators.
No warning or anything.
[/Moderating]
I am against the death penalty in the U.S. The entire preparation process, the length it take to get to execution day, strapping a guy in a diaper, all of it is disgusting.
HOWEVER… since we have it now in certain states and given the case at hand in the OP, I have no concern that asshole suffered. He had a history of beating her, planned her murder, and smiled at the family. Perhaps we can combine the two. We almost kill you once a week with light doses of lethal drugs. (Kidding on the last part) But it seems like this maniac didn’t give a shit what sentence he got and knew he’d be caught. His two torturous hours don’t faze me.
Living in CA, every election the DP is up for question. Last time it passed at over 80% and this is not unusual out here. I’ve seen videos of victims’ families, those who lost kids and parents in a poorly planned drive-by shooting. Parents of kids who were kidnapped then raped and killed. These are the people who sincerely want the DP and iphold it. I fully understand if one of my sisters in NYC or DC gets murdered by a maniac, an execution years later still won’t bring them back or give me any real closure. I don’t believe in the possibility of any afterlife for any human, so I can say I’d be happy if their murderer spends their lives in solitary.
But no one in my family has ever been murdered. I absolutely can’t say my current views would hold if it DID happen. The victim’s family in this case did want the death penalty, they got it, I doubt they have real closure from this execution, but if they say they do, and in his death (this botched death penalty), why should I debate that?
This is so stupid I’m already ashamed to share a state with you, quite aside from the fact that you value the satisfaction of your thirst for revenge above the goals of justice and civilization.
I’ll easily grant that for some crimes the merited desert is death. But society cannot concern itself only with deserts; it must consider what is best for the social order. It must strike a balance between deserts, ethics, and expediency – and this constitutes justice. I also believe strongly that it is to a society’s credit if its justice is tempered with mercy, where appropriate.
And the arguments of expediency (not to mention ethics) are all on the side of abolishing the death penalty.
First, it is monstrously expensive, and it must be so. If you are going to allow the state to kill someone, you had better be damned sure that they actually committed the crime for which they allegedly deserve death. This means you must allow for the long, deliberate march of due process, and all its lengthy appeals. To make the death penalty cheaper is necessarily to make it more haphazard, less just. Second, it serves no social good that the less expensive method of lifetime incarceration does not. It does not deter any capital crime, never has.
So no, I’m not in favor of wasting my tax dollars just so some backwards hicks can satisfy their pre-civilization urges.
What part of my use of the term “undebatably” led you to believe that I had any interest in debating the point?
:rolleyes:
“It is undebatably true that 1 + 1 = 3. How we know this? Because, as I said, it’s undebatably true.”
Even those who didn’t actually commit the crime they were convicted of
When Lrrr has a more sophisticated moral code than you do, you got problems.
I don’t think any of them would have been convicted with competent defense, honest prosecutors and judges, and impartial juries.
Could we leave the nasal secretions of female deer out of this discussion, please?
Sorry, couldn’t resist. 
Nah, it’s a fair cop.
Smapti, my apologies. My last post was unnecessarily snarky and insulting, purely for the sake of being snarky and insulting. It was unbecoming.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t say, or even imply, that.
The answer is: not especially. Probably less than almost anyone else alive in the 60s. But I don’t believe it’s up to anyone to make the call on who deserves to die. Besides, Eichmann as an example is one-in-a-what…? Trillion? I don’t think he’s a particularly good case for capital punishment.
It’s not just about what anyone deserves, it’s about how we want to be, as a society. Did Eichmann “deserve” to not be tortured? Did he “deserve” to not be flayed alive? If you’re just going to compare a person’s crimes to his sentence, either of those sentences would probably be comparably light. But we haven’t done away with torture because no one deserves it, but because it’s fucking barbarous and disgusting and doesn’t belong in any country with any claim to be civilized.