Yeah! They’re all over 18! At least there won’t be shitheads here whining over under-18 suspected murderers being tried as adults. I worried that since the victim was under-18, that some of his cold-blooded animalistic subhuman filthy piece of shit…suspected…killers would be. Good thing that’s out of the way.
Oh wait. This is the SDMB, where some creep will always jump up to defend anything, no matter how egregious and disgustingly evil. So I guess I’d better keep checking the thread, to see what the Cat of Assholery drags in…what will it be, this thread - someone saying how much she deserved it? Saying how God punished her? Or, ooooooooo, I know - someone from that “other place” coming in to talk about increasing White Purity by “killing the fags”? :rolleyes:
Hold on here, is there any proof yet that the 17 year old was killed because of who they were? Couldn’t it be that the kid got into a fight and someone hit him over the head with a bat, or something, and the group panicked and hid the body? It wouldn’t be the first time such a thing has happened.
I don’t think it is fair to assume that every time a gay/bi/tg person gets killed it was a hate crime. There needs to be an investigation.
That’s one of the most sickening things about this murder. If Gwen was killed for no reason at all, it would be easier to deal with. It’s alot easier to understand massive stupidity than blind hatred.
I can understand how “You cut in line!” can become “I’m going to kill you!”.
I cannot understand how “I think you’re a freak!” can become “I’m going to kill you!”
The article in the LA Times relates this sequence of events (eerily reminiscent of the Teena Brandon case): Eddie “Gwen” (aka “Lida”) Araujo went to a party dressed as a girl; sometime during the party the girlfriend of the brother of one of the accused went in the bathroom with Gwen to confirm that Gwen was in fact biologically male; the three suspects, who had had sex with Gwen in the past, were angry at this discovery, beat Gwen up at the party, dragged Gwen into the garage, stranged Gwen with a rope, then drove to a remote location to abandon the body. The murder happened 3 October and the body was found last Wednesday 16 October.
Sigh. I worry about this sort of thing quite a bit. Fortunately, I’m older and I don’t do the social scene so I’m at a lot less risk, but it can still happen. I worry more about being the next Tyra Hunter, especially considering how I was hit by a car a few days ago while walking to lunch from work.
I hadn’t seen that Arnold. Certainly who ever is responsible for this needs to be brought to justice. If the facts are as you describe them it begins to look more like a “hate” crime. I just thought it was important to point out that one should not jump to conclusions just because of the group to which the victim belonged.
I don’t understand either. I am a rather optimistic person, but there are times when I have to wonder about us humans…
Most of the stories that I’ve read about this tragic case are careful to point out that Eddie/Lida/Gwen was ambivalent and identified as both male and female, depending on circumstance, so I think it’s fair to spare the papers the ire that should more properly be reserved for the murdering bastards that took hir life. For what it’s worth, I believe they may be taking their cue from the Araujo family, who were clearly very loving and accepting, and also use male pronouns to refer to him. His mother has said “He was a great kid. He’s my Gwen, and he’s beautiful.”
Probably unconscionably academic in view of the reality of another life lost, but the name Lida, which he was using at the party that night, reminds me of Yeats: A sudden blow- the great wings beating still / above the staggering girl…
What is especially angry-making about this case is that there were people at the party (not clear how many) who knew at the very least that a severe beating was taking place, and did nothing to help. I hope that more charges are forthcoming.
And don’t get me started on the Phelps-wannabe that has already announced his intention to picket the memorial service. And I thought the world was getting better when that cretin started decomposing. Always a next-in-line. I think I’m going to get drunk, now.
Doc Cathode, I’m afraid I can all too easily understand how “You’re a freak” can turn into “I want to kill you.” I experienced it first hand growing up in a nice, safe, suburban town. Mind you, I was not lesbian (I don’t think that town admits to having gay children now, let alone in the early 80’s), transgendered, or anything else notably odd. I was just someone who refused to end her friendship with a handicapped girl and who refused to become like the people who tormented her. I was about as openly defiant as you could get. I stayed so, even after a kid pulled a knife on me while I was waiting for one of my few friends at the top of a staircase. No, he didn’t use it, and no, I didn’t report it, because I already knew that reporting it wouldn’t do any good.
Getting back to the OP, I read the story in the newspaper last night. I’ll add my disgust toward these bullies who have so little that they can only take from someone else. If they think they’re cool, superior, or defending civilization, they’re wrong. Ms./Mr. Araujo will be in my prayers.
Christ, I guess I’m going to risk being Athracite’s object that the Cat of Assholery brought in. If the above is true then it seems to me to be more then just a case of “He’s different let’s kill 'em.” Gwen had sex with three men who weren’t aware of her transgendered status and that’s just not right. Not everybody is 100% comfortable with their sexuality and I can see how this might have upset them.
Of course I’m not excusing them for murder nor am I saying that Eddie deserved to be killed or assaulted. I’m just saying this doesn’t sound like he was targetted simply for being transgendered.
Thanks- I didn’t know that at the time I posted. I withdraw my criticism of the press. I not, however, withdraw my criticism of the people who killed Gwen, who are among the lowest kind of human being.
You’d think so but I suppose that depends on what kind of sex they were having. Brandon Teena was able to pull it off but then she dated girls who had little sexual experience and took active steps to fool them.
Deliberately using the wrong pronoun with respect to a transgendered individual is a base insult. I will, highly charitably, assume that you did so accidentally.
Most transsexuals go through a period of ambiguous identification; it’s called “transition”. Changing your social gender role is nontrivial and will not occur overnight. For many years after I knew I was transsexual, I nevertheless continued to claim to identify as male in many contexts; such sham identification does not negate my womanhood.
It is quite clear to me (especially by the comments made by her friend Daisy) that Gwen was a transsexual woman and should be afforded the decency of being referred to by her true gender.
On the contrary, your concern is a legitimate one, IMO, which I find dificult to resolve. You see, I do feel that by the time any two individuals, regardless of sex or sexuality reach a point where they are to have sexual relations, that they really ought to have been more truthful and honest with each other about what they were, what they are, and what they will be.
I’m not saying that transsexual people must out themselves at the first opportunity, or ever, to people who have no business or concern in the matter. Transsexual people can be subject to the absolute worst types and forms of abuse, discrimination, mockery, and retribution - sometimes even by the gay and lesbian community. Some lesbians are openly hostile to transgendered women, to the point of violence, as they are seen as the “ultimate interloper” into their private little world.
But to me, sex of any sort is such a serious and profound joining (yes, even oral sex) that the partners should know more about each other by the time that they are ready for that.
Thus, I guess what I’m saying, is that if this was the case, it would not be unreasonable to feel as if the partner had been dishonest with you, even if for a good reason, and to be quite upset as a result. But laying a finger on her as a result of those feelings would be dead wrong. And failing to take into account the whole person you felt strongly enough about to have sex with, and to try and be reasonable and see things from her position and worldview, is wrong too.
But then, I don’t, and never have understood the concept of “casual sex”, especially that which often takes place behind the scenes at raves, clubs, Spring Breaks on Ibiza or Padre, Dopefests (which seem to be real fleshpits by some accounts :eek: ) and other gatherings. I guess I am completely out of touch with the kids today and their rock-and-roll music, their bell-bottomed blue-jeans, and their beatnik poetry…
