# Another cartoon thread! Who is fanning the fire and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328 "2006-02-07T01:44:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/1 "2006-02-07T01:44:44Z")
Google news is a wonderful thing. It pops up all kinds of interesting perspectives, such as this [Russian news analysis](http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2978350&PageNum=0) that answers that Iran is instigating this conflagration now, months after the offensive cartoons were published, to [ul] [li]distract the world from its nuclear program[/li][li]to minimize the influence of moderate and pro-Western forces in Arab countries during a show-down over its nuclear program[/li][li]to furher polarize Arab and Western societies and therefore help keep the Arab world “safe” from western secular values[/li][li]and to solidify their own base within their own country against moderate forces[/li][/ul] > [@](#): > > “The caricatures of Prophet Mohammad published as far back as last September angered the entire Islamic world but especially the countries where Iran’s influence is the strongest, and the apex of the conflict coincided precisely with the discussion of the Iranian nuclear dossier at the IAEA,” the president of the Institute of the Middle East, Yevgeny Satanovsky, told Itar-Tass. > > In his views, this as an indication that someone in the Islamic world has decided to “test the West’s strength”. > > Federation Council International Relations Committee Chairman Mikhail Margelov agrees with him. “For some reason it took four months for the grapes of wrath to ripen, and the seemingly forgotten episode about the notorious war of civilisations was suddenly played out after the elections in Palestine and the IAEA decision on the Iranian dossier,” he said. > > A member of the Scientific Council of the Moscow Carnegie Centre, Alexei Malashenko, believes that “the fuss around the caricatures was made artificially”. > > An Islam specialist, he stressed that at a time when the Moslem world has no concerted position either on the Iranian nuclear programme or Hamas, whose ideology is opposed by moderate Islamic regimes, the caricature uproar provides a “pretext for showing how coherent Moslems are”. Please note, the scope of this thread is limited. We already have discussion on how this reaction proves (to some who want to think this way) how violent Islam is, and others on how Islamophobic the West is, and others on the inappropriateness of various responses from every side. Please leave those discussions in those threads. This is specifically on whether or not the controversy was artificially created, and to what end people are being manipulated, if they are. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/2 "2006-02-07T02:28:18Z")
FWIW the Telegraph did report on who may have yelled “fire” in this crowded theater of the absurd: > **[News](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/?view=BLOGDETAIL&grid=P30&blog=newsdesk&xml=%2Fnews%2F2006%2F02%2F06%2Fbleurope06.xml&sSheet=%2Fportal%2F2006%2F02%2F06%2Fixportaltop.html)** > > Latest breaking news, including politics, crime and celebrity. Find stories, updates and expert opinion. > [@](#): > > As I’ve written in earlier postings, the row took off after a delegation of Danish Muslim clerics and activists took themselves off to the Middle East to drum up support for their campaign against the 12 cartoons published in the Danish newspaper, “Jyllands-Posten”. > > They carried with them a 43 page dossier, containing not 12, but 15 images of the Prophet Mohammed. The three extras were far more obscene, depicting Mohammed with a pig’s snout and labeling him a paedophile, and showing a praying Muslim being raped by a dog. > > The Muslim delegates insisted they made clear the three extra cartoons were not from “Jyllands-Posten”, but were included to show the level of racism faced by Danish Muslims. They say the images came from hate mail sent, anonymously, to Danish Muslims. > > There is certainly a problem with this account: every time Danish or foreign reporters asked to meet the Muslims sent those letters, or simply to see the original hate mail, they were told no, or promised they would be made available, only for that promise not to be kept. > > To me, the case is inconclusive - definitely worth reporting, but impossible to prove either way. Other voices in the blogosphere have already made up their minds, it seems, declaring the extra three cartoons were faked by the imams themselves. > > In the US, lots of bloggers have been linking to Gateway Pundit, which pins the blame on the Copenhagen-based imam, Ahmed Abu Laban, stating as fact that he “faked obscene cartoons on his trip to the Middle East.” > > Gateway Pundit cites an interview with Abu Laban on the US Fox News network, including the following commentary by the Fox correspondent, Jonathon Hunt: "After the publication the Imam and others toured the Middle East showing the cartoons but adding three more new ones that were far more offensive than anything the paper published. > > “He [Imam Ahmad Abu Laban] told us they were from threatening letters but promising to give us copies of those letters, he never did.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/3 "2006-02-07T04:14:31Z")
More info regarding the more offensive cartoons that were never published in Denmark: [http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2006/2/5/7431/74233](http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2006/2/5/7431/74233) Careful with some of the links to the offensive cartoons linked in the blog, some may not be safe for work. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/4 "2006-02-07T04:55:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Google news is a wonderful thing. It pops up all kinds of interesting perspectives, such as this [Russian news analysis](http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2978350&PageNum=0) that answers that Iran is instigating this conflagration now, months after the offensive cartoons were published, to [ul] > [li]distract the world from its nuclear program[/li][li]to minimize the influence of moderate and pro-Western forces in Arab countries during a show-down over its nuclear program[/li][li]to furher polarize Arab and Western societies and therefore help keep the Arab world “safe” from western secular values[/li][li]and to solidify their own base within their own country against moderate forces[/li][/ul] Please note, the scope of this thread is limited. We already have discussion on how this reaction proves (to some who want to think this way) how violent Islam is, and others on how Islamophobic the West is, and others on the inappropriateness of various responses from every side. Please leave those discussions in those threads. This is specifically on whether or not the controversy was artificially created, and to what end people are being manipulated, if they are. Thank you. it’s working pretty well for them so far… ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/5 "2006-02-07T06:30:08Z")
I don’t know about Iran, but since the comics were published several months ago, something’s defintely awry. All of Russia’s commentaries seem to be in character with Iran, so none of it would surprise me. But it seems they’re taking the idea from another country… > [@](#): > > Saudi Foreign Minister, concerned by possible EU and WTO reactions to boycott, tries to explain how simultaneous Saudi Government statements, Saudi newspaper articles, and sermons in all Saudi mosques, suddenly appearing four months after the original cartoons were published, were all spontaneous and coincidental events. - [The Religious Policeman’s blog](http://muttawa.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_muttawa_archive.html) The theory being that even after saying that they had upped security and safety measures at Mecca, there were [several hundred deaths](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj#2006_stampede) on Saudi’s watch during Hajj this year. From what I’ve [read](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/5/13149/60748), the Saudi’s then marginililzed the story by saying that there were only a few deaths, and then, when other Muslim countries started to complain that their citizens’ deaths were the Saudi’s fault, had several “inflammatory” stories published about the cartoons (since the government supposedly has full control of the media). The Saudis influence the Sunnis regardless of country, and now there’s flames and even death. I don’t know how much of this, if any, is true. The key here is that the cartoons were published several months ago and only now is the violence breaking out. And as the above link points out, depictions of Moe may not be common, but they still appear even in the Muslim world. (No wonder I didn’t find this thread in my search: It doesn’t contain anything Danish ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/6 "2006-02-07T06:53:22Z")
Iran? Saudi? A shadowy international government-sponsored disinformation/agitprop cartel? Ah, you naive Americans, innocents abroad, just as your Mark Tuwayyin called you on his trip to the Middle East. Babes in the woods. Now it is time to welcome you to the wonderful world of Middle Eastern conspiracy theory mongering. In America, conspiracy theories are still amateur. In the Middle East, this sport is pro ball. Wanna play? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/7 "2006-02-07T06:58:22Z")
I’m not sure an imam would manufacture a picture showing Mohammed, even as part of a horrific plot. It’s certainly not crazy to think that someone would have created such pictures. As nasty and hateful as many of the protestors are, there are plenty of people who hate Muslims who would create stuff like that. Heck, stop by free republic every once and awhile. I think the bottom line should be that these people going around claiming that some anonymous hate mail proves that they are being oppressed or that entire countries must pay for it is still totally fuckheaded. It doesn’t matter if the kind of Europe drew some dirty pictures: that’s still no excuse for violence against anyone. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/8 "2006-02-07T13:44:52Z")
Okay, has anybody established a definite connection between the imams who are circulating these cartoons and the Iranian government–or better yet, the Iranian intelligence services? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/9 "2006-02-07T13:51:12Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Iran? Saudi? A shadowy international government-sponsored disinformation/agitprop cartel? Ah, you naive Americans, innocents abroad, just as your Mark Tuwayyin called you on his trip to the Middle East. Babes in the woods. Now it is time to welcome you to the wonderful world of Middle Eastern conspiracy theory mongering. In America, conspiracy theories are still amateur. In the Middle East, this sport is pro ball. Wanna play? When come back, bring relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/10 "2006-02-07T22:04:18Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I’m not sure an imam would manufacture a picture showing Mohammed, even as part of a horrific plot. It’s certainly not crazy to think that someone would have created such pictures. Yes, I have found that very hard to swallow also. Somebody on the net now found out the probable source for the cartoon with Muhammed as Pig, [Duo hogs top prize in pig-squealing contest](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8959820) - which has absolutely nothing to do with Muhammed or Islam or anything. But run through a photo-copier a number of times to reduce quality. Suddenly you can pass it off as anybody from Britney Spears to Muhammed. ([Danish Imams Busted!](http://www.neandernews.com/?p=54)). It’s still a lie that the images were published in a Danish newspaper. However I guess someone else besides the Imams themselves might have run the image through the photo-copier. Right. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/11 "2006-02-08T02:26:14Z")
I heard on NPR today that an Iranian Ayatollah claims that the whole cartoon thing is a conspiracy on the part of Israel to stir up Muslim/Christian antipathy. Go figger. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/12 "2006-02-08T02:37:56Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I heard on NPR today that an Iranian Ayatollah claims that the whole cartoon thing is a conspiracy on the part of Israel to stir up Muslim/Christian antipathy. > > Go figger. That’s right, and as you figger, you may perceive the relevance in my sarcasm above. Anytime shadowy actors are stirring up the Middle East, count on an ever-thickening haze of conspiracy theories pointing in many different directions at once. The poor signal to noise ratio is seriously something to be prepared for in trying to understand just what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/13 "2006-02-08T03:35:28Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > When come back, bring relevance. Are you serious? That post is completely relevant. It makes sense to me. What don’t you get? ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/14 "2006-02-08T04:00:24Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I heard on NPR today that an Iranian Ayatollah claims that the whole cartoon thing is a conspiracy on the part of Israel to stir up Muslim/Christian antipathy. > > Go figger. Phew! For a second there, I was starting to doubt the omnipotence of our jewish overlords. Glad to see they’re ontop of this one! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/15 "2006-02-08T13:52:55Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Are you serious? That post is completely relevant. It makes sense to me. What don’t you get? Okay, maybe it is relevant, but it doesn’t make any sense, at least for a Great Debate post. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/16 "2006-02-08T14:37:20Z")
> [@Gozu](#): > > Phew! For a second there, I was starting to doubt the omnipotence of our jewish overlords. Glad to see they’re ontop of this one! 😃 All Hail The Omnipotent Elders of Zion! ;j And I’m not even Jewish! Gollygeewillikers! ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/17 "2006-02-08T17:18:25Z")
It made sense to me, but I’ve studied the history and culture of the middle East more than the average bear. I thought it was a nice encapsulation of a very real phenomenon in the region. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/18 "2006-02-08T17:46:25Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s right, and as you figger, you may perceive the relevance in my sarcasm above. Anytime shadowy actors are stirring up the Middle East, count on an ever-thickening haze of conspiracy theories pointing in many different directions at once. The poor signal to noise ratio is seriously something to be prepared for in trying to understand just what is going on. Old news. And you imply that I think differently, as an American. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/19 "2006-02-08T17:52:19Z")
[Amir Taheri](http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007934) on who’s behind the riots. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328/20 "2006-02-09T07:30:26Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I’m not sure an imam would manufacture a picture showing Mohammed, even as part of a horrific plot. It’s certainly not crazy to think that someone would have created such pictures. As nasty and hateful as many of the protestors are, there are plenty of people who hate Muslims who would create stuff like that. Heck, stop by free republic every once and awhile. > > I think the bottom line should be that these people going around claiming that some anonymous hate mail proves that they are being oppressed or that entire countries must pay for it is still totally fuckheaded. It doesn’t matter if the kind of Europe drew some dirty pictures: that’s still no excuse for violence against anyone. C’mon guys (and gals), don’t you think the intelligence organization’s of Saudi and Iran (and most countries) are every bit as educated, clever, devious and capable of something like this as our own CIA? It seems like failure in Iraq would gain, potentially Iran or Saudi, and possibly both to a degree. Neither wants democracy, both would like the additional oil. Something like this certainly makes it harder to finish the Iraq thing which will then leave an opening for either one of those two countries to take Iraq and really dominate the ME. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-cartoon-thread-who-is-fanning-the-fire-and-why/343328.md?page=2)