# Another clue in the "Does Cecil really exist controversy". **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 18, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866 "2002-03-18T13:41:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/1 "2002-03-18T13:41:43Z")
In this article… [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_112.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_112.html) Cecil speaks of himself in the third person… > [@](#): > > One more thing. While addressing a Mensa convention the other day (really), **Cecil** told the story of the letter about the M&M expiration date, concluding with the plaintive question, “what happens at 8:06?” From the back of the room someone promptly shot back the obvious answer: “They melt in your hand.” It’s enough to make one go hmmmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/2 "2002-03-18T14:13:25Z")
**Trion** doesn’t think there’s anything to your clue. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/3 "2002-03-18T16:46:20Z")
That’s IT. Cecil is former Senator Bob Dole. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/4 "2002-03-18T16:56:48Z")
“Who stole Bob Dole’s peanut butter (M&M’s)?” -SNL And yes, Cecil exists. I once went around looking for clues, asking everyone on the boards etc… But in the end I just decided that Cecil exists. I have no proof, but it’s just something you have to either believe or not. There’s SDMB athiesm and then there’s the devoted. Don’t bother to try to debate your point, the other side won’t except what you say. I just believe he’s out there. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/5 "2002-03-18T17:11:36Z")
Who would you rather believe in? Cecil who writes a new column weekly or God who has been sitting on the sidelines since the days of Mohammed (and even that was via proxy)? ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/6 "2002-03-19T02:37:01Z")
I hear ya adam. ---
**Author:** ![ThatGuyWithPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@ThatGuyWithPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuyWithPants)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/7 "2002-03-19T03:22:29Z")
ThatGuyWithPants does not apprciate one mocking people who speak in third person. ThatGuyWithPants is not amused and does not know what the big deal is. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/8 "2002-03-19T03:45:10Z")
Cecil always (well, often) speaks in the third person. While I’m here, I might as well register the bit of evidence of Cecil’s Ed Zottiness that I found on the [temp board](http://bb.bbboy.net/straightdope). I posted about it there, but it ought to be entered into the “official record” here, so to speak. In any case, as I address in [this thread](http://bb.bbboy.net/straightdope-viewthread?forum=7&thread=160), Cecil’s profile on the temp board originally listed his e-mail address as “[edzotti@aol.com](mailto:edzotti@aol.com).” While I don’t see this as conclusive of anything, I do find it quite interesting. -Loopus ---
**Author:** ![Oncle\_Biere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@Oncle\_Biere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oncle_Biere)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/9 "2002-03-19T05:35:47Z")
At one time **handy** located the corporate filing for the name and it was listed as fictitious. There were 4 editors using that name consecutively, IIRC, the first of which went to teach in Florida. If the board weren’t so slow right now I’d look it up for you. You might search on “handy” as the poster and “copyright” or “cecil” in the thread title. Would have been on MPSIMS, most likely. ---
**Author:** ![Oncle\_Biere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@Oncle\_Biere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oncle_Biere)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/10 "2002-03-19T05:47:26Z")
Found his quote on this thread : [Where are you Cecil Adams?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&threadid=30175&highlight=copyright+or+cecil) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*Im going to settle this issue once & for all. According to the US trademark office, it was a trademark & oh, so sorry to anyone who thinks he was a real person: > > Word Mark > CECIL ADAMS > Goods and Services > (ABANDONED) IC 016. US 038. G & S: NEWSPAPER COLUMN. FIRST USE: 19730202. > FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19730202 > Mark Drawing Code > (1) TYPED DRAWING > Serial Number > 73631921 > Filing Date > November 24, 1986 > Owner > (APPLICANT) CHICAGO READER, INCORPORATED CORPORATION ILLINOIS P.O. > BOX 11101, FORT DEARBORN STATION CHICAGO ILLINOIS 60611 > Type of Mark > TRADEMARK > Register > PRINCIPAL-2(F) > Other Data > CECIL ADAMS DOES NOT IDENTIFY ANY PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL BUT WAS > DEVISED AS A FANCIFUL NAME > Live/Dead Indicator > DEAD > Abandonment Date > March 29, 1989 \*\* ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/11 "2002-03-19T10:15:55Z")
It is possible to trademark a name, if all the hullabaloo concerning Intellectual Property. Anyway, that was put there to test us!! ---
**Author:** ![annalamerino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@annalamerino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annalamerino)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/12 "2002-03-19T14:16:26Z")
Will somebody explain the M&M story? You got me hungry for answers. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mermaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@The\_Mermaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mermaid)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/13 "2002-03-19T15:09:31Z")
Dear Teeming Millions: I am a newbie on the SDMB . Some of my little friends IRL say there is no Cecil Adams. Manny says, “If you see it in The Straight Dope, it’s so.” Please tell me the truth, is there a Cecil Adams? Sincerely, Reeder Reeder, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe anything they read on the internet. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Reeder, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless mental facilities of Cecil Adams,as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, Reeder, there is a Cecil Adams. He exists as certainly as ignorance exists, and you know that it abounds and gives to your arse its most exquisite pain. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Cecil Adams! It would be as dreary as if there were no Reeders. There would be an overabundance of ignorance, nothing to fight and no reason to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in chat and Live journal. The external light with which knowlege fills the world would be extinguished. Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in felching. You might get your friends to hire men to watch Ed Zotti and all the offices of the Chicago Reader and all of the mods to try to catch a glimpse of Cecil Adams, but even if you did not see Cecil laboring with his pen and paper, what would that prove? Nobody sees Cecil Adams, but that is no sign that there is no Cecil Adams. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see trolls dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You can tear apart the felching straw and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the teeming millions that ever lived could tear apart. Only Great Debates, General Questions, Cafe Society, IMHO, MPSIMS and The Pit can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernatural beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Reeder, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. ## No Cecil Adams! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Reeder, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. [sub]My sincerest apologies to the New York Sun[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/14 "2002-03-19T19:18:47Z")
Sigh. Y’know, there are also folks who don’t believe that we landed people on the moon. The difficulty in answering such accusations is that it’s easy to bring up stupid arguments that sound coherent, and it’s hard and time-consuming to rebut them. Of course, Cecil Adams name is trademarked – I’d bet that so is Dave Berry and Larry King. Almost any author writing a regular column under his or her name gets it trademarked, to avoid being ripped off. Cecil went through a phase of being very techno-phobic, and not trusting the “new-fangled” computer, so Ed Zotti did a lot of the computer-related work for Cecil. We did once lure Cecil into an AOL chat, with Zotti acting as moderator, which is about as close as you can come to seeing them in the same place at the same time. I work mostly with Ed, and Ed’s a real nice guy, don’t get me wrong, but he’s just nowhere near bright enough to “be” Cecil. (Don’t tell Ed I said that, he’s my direct boss for Straight Dope staff work.) Then again, as I’ve said before, Cecil gets a kick out of being thought to be non-existent, and so long as he enjoys hearing about it, he’s not about to try to prove his existence. Anyhow, Cecil clear thinks – just read the column – hence, by Descartian logic, must exist. ---
**Author:** ![Soupy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Soupy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soupy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/15 "2002-03-19T22:51:26Z")
\*\*\*C K Dexter Haven \*\*\* ? Isn’t that name copyrighted by Philip Barry, author of _The Philadelphia Story_ the old movie with Cary Grant? So we have a ficticious person assuring us that another ficticious person is real? Yeees, I can see the logic in believing that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/16 "2002-03-20T03:14:00Z")
**Fenris** (in a slightly drunken voice) Have you heard? Among this clan Cecil’s called “The World’s Smartest Man!” **Dex** (the epitome of culture and sophistication) (spoken) Is that what they’re sayin’? Well did you evah? What a swell MB this is! **Fenris** And have you heard the story of **Anniz** and **Monfort**? They’re in love! **Dex** (spoken) Sounds like true romance **Fenris** (spoken) I may cry! **Dex** (spoken) Tune in tomorrow! Well did you evah? What a swell MB this is! What posters, what talk! **Fenris** (spoken) What babes! **Dex** Evidently 'spree rocks **Fenris** (spoken) He’s beeooteeful! **Dex** (spoken) I’ve never seen such gaiety! **Fenris** (spoken) Don’t even go there. **Dex** It’s all too, too risque, really! **Fenris** **Eve’s** posting! She’s back! **Dex** (spoken) She is!? **Both** We all felt her lack! **Fenris** (spoken) Hey! That’s what _I_ was gonna say! **Dex** (spoken) Y’know, you’re a brilliant fella? **Fenris** (spoken) Thank you! **Dex** (spoken) Drink up, Fen And please don’t flame that troll, my friend! Well did you evah? What a swell-egant, elegant MB this is! Fenris Porter (yeah, I know it’s truncated, it’s already way long as it is!) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/17 "2002-03-20T14:18:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Mermaid \* > \*\*Dear Teeming Millions: > > \>Snip > > No Cecil Adams! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Reeder, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. > > \*\* I guess fighting ignorance is going to take much longer than **anyone** ever thought. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-clue-in-the-does-cecil-really-exist-controversy/98866/18 "2002-03-20T18:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*Sigh. Y’know, there are also folks who don’t believe that we landed people on the moon. > > Of course, Cecil Adams name is trademarked – I’d bet that so is Dave Berry and Larry King. Almost any author writing a regular column under his or her name gets it trademarked, to avoid being ripped off. > \*\* There are numerous photograpgs of Dave Barry and Larry King. Both have appeared in public. There is a town here in North Dakota that named a sewage lift station for Dave Barry, and he came for the ceremony. Show me picture one of Cecil Adams, And I will beleve in him.