# Another "Common Knowledge or Fascinating Anecdotes... that unfortunately aren't true" Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225 "2009-11-11T20:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/181 "2009-11-19T15:49:06Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Nowhere in the article (which is just a quick condensing of the findings; the NYTimes probably wasn’t a good place for me to choose as a cite, but it was the first one that popped up) does it say where any study _has_ shown stretching to be beneficial during warmup, either.Dr. Beim recommends aggressive stretcing nonetheless (based on no studies), and she says she does find stretching to be beneficial for injury rehab, if it’s done every day. Next, there’s another study saying that daily stretching might be beneficial for performance, but offers no protection against injury and sometimes proves harmful. Then another doctor saying he still thinks people should stretch anyways, then the 2nd study’s author contradicting him, based on the study. Then I think it’s just one of those holdovers from way back when when we had to do jumping jacks and stretch in P.E. before we did anything, including playing dodgeball. If we do ever get studies showing clear benefits, fine, I’ll buy it. And stretching for rehab, fine. And if you like how it feels, fine. But as for stretching in warmup, it only seems to make sense when the exercise you are participating in involves stretching, like ballet or gymnastics or contortion. I’m still waiting for you to show us where stretching serves no beneficial purpose whatsoever, and that people who engage in it should be mocked. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/182 "2009-11-19T15:53:11Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > This itself is, at least according to my dad, a myth. He was at Altamont and says that he had no idea anyone was killed until a couple days later (there were like a zillion people there). It’s only in much later retrospect that people seemed to think that this murder was somehow symbolic. It didn’t seem so to anyone at the time. My dad is baffled by the notion that Altamont was somehow this terrible show that heralded the end of an era; he claims it was fun and the Rolling Stones were awesome. A friend of mine was there too. She worked for an alternative newspaper in the Bay Area at the time and was able to go backstage using her press pass. She was backstage at the time and still didn’t find out about it that day. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/183 "2009-11-19T15:53:53Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > McDonald’s was liable because she was severely injured… because _if they hadn’t been negligent, she wouldn’t have been severely injured_. Their negligence was in keeping the coffee at such an insanely high temperature despite knowing that it made the coffee undrinkable and dangerous if spilled. I don’t even know why this is being discussed in this thread. Whether the suit was frivolous is subjective, not not fact-based. As noted in the previously linked Wikipedia entry on this subject, similar suits failed in the U.K. > [@](#): > > "If this submission be right, McDonald’s should not have served drinks at any temperature which would have caused a bad scalding injury. The evidence is that tea or coffee served at a temperature of 65 C will cause a deep thickness burn if it is in contact with the skin for just two seconds. Thus, if McDonald’s were going to avoid the risk of injury by a deep thickness burn they would have had to have served tea and coffee at between 55 C and 60 C. But tea ought to be brewed with boiling water if it is to give its best flavour and coffee ought to be brewed at between 85 C and 95 C. Further, people generally like to allow a hot drink to cool to the temperature they prefer. Accordingly, I have no doubt that tea and coffee served at between 55 C and 60 C would not have been acceptable to McDonald’s customers. Indeed, on the evidence, I find that the public want to be able to buy tea and coffee served hot, that is to say at a temperature of at least 65 C, even though they know (as I think they must be taken to do for the purposes of answering issues (1) and (2)) that there is a risk of a scalding injury if the drink is spilled. 190 degrees is not an insanely high temperature for coffee; it is necessary to its preparation. That they maintained this temperature was a service to its customers who prefer their coffee hot and maintains a palatable temperature when cold liquids, such as creamer are added to it. It’s not unreasonable to many people. It also doesn’t take a genius to realize that balancing a hot cup of coffee between your knees is asking for trouble and Liebert was extremely negligent for taking that risk. Her injuries are entirely consistent with prolonged contact with a hot liquid due to the fact that she poured it onto absorbent cotton sweatpants. The liquid wasn’t subjected to air contact that would quickly lower the temp as it would on the tongue. If anything, the case was poorly decided and the jury was wrong. That being said, it \*is \*a good reason to question the wisdom of drive-throughs. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/184 "2009-11-19T16:18:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > “Georgia was a penal colony”. > > No. Or rather, not really- not like Botany Bay by any means. > > One of the greatest problems Jamestown and other colonies had was a shortage of cheap labor. Oglethorpe, a Quaker, hated the notion of debtors prisons almost as much as he hated the notion of slavery and saw Georgia as a way to help attack both institutions. He banned slavery in the new colony (the only one ever to do so- wonder if it worked) and while his settlers were mostly free people he advertised a chance for debtors to start their life anew and pay off some or all of their bills by subsidizing their passage using money left from their indenture towards their creditors. In anticipation of the popularity of this Oglethorpe’s charter of Georgia was the first in the new world to ban slavery for all time. > > Unfortunately most people in debtors prisons quite understandably, \*weren’t jumping up and down for the chance to leave their family and everything they knew to go be a slave for 5-10 years in a new colony filled with mosquitoes and swamps and surrounded by Indians, so not many did. The majority of the colonists were free people with debtors prisoners accounting for only a small minority. Of those who did, some returned to England when their indenture was over, some died, some became respected citizens after their indenture, at least a couple hanged for killing the person they were indentured to, and most became members of the working class when they were free. Ultimately more Swiss and Germans came to Georgia than debtors. Based on the research I’ve done, Georgia was chartered as a penal colony, but the idea was totally scrapped before it was actually settled. There is a list available of the initial Georgia settlers, and none of them came from debtor’s prison. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/185 "2009-11-19T20:59:19Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Based on the research I’ve done, Georgia was chartered as a penal colony, but the idea was totally scrapped before it was actually settled. There is a list available of the initial Georgia settlers, and none of them came from debtor’s prison. Some did come over later, but not many. A mistake I made in the above: Oglethorpe was _not_ a Quaker, though he did respect them. One of the reasons he detested the notion of debtor’s prisons was indignation over William Penn, who was a Quaker and who he greatly admired, ending up in one in his 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/186 "2009-11-27T16:59:59Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > I don’t even know why this is being discussed in this thread. Whether the suit was frivolous is subjective, not not fact-based. As noted in the previously linked Wikipedia entry on this subject, similar suits failed in the U.K. > > 190 degrees is not an insanely high temperature for coffee; it is necessary to its preparation. That they maintained this temperature was a service to its customers who prefer their coffee hot and maintains a palatable temperature when cold liquids, such as creamer are added to it. It’s not unreasonable to many people. It also doesn’t take a genius to realize that balancing a hot cup of coffee between your knees is asking for trouble and Liebert was extremely negligent for taking that risk. Her injuries are entirely consistent with prolonged contact with a hot liquid due to the fact that she poured it onto absorbent cotton sweatpants. The liquid wasn’t subjected to air contact that would quickly lower the temp as it would on the tongue. > > If anything, the case was poorly decided and the jury was wrong. That being said, it \*is \*a good reason to question the wisdom of drive-throughs. This doesn’t appear to be entirely consistent with [the facts](http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts). ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/187 "2009-11-27T17:25:08Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > This doesn’t appear to be entirely consistent with [the facts](http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts). I don’t believe their “facts”: > [@](#): > > McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultant’s advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and **coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees**. The bolded part is bullshit. Have you ever measured the temperature of coffee you drink? I have. 140 is luke-warm at best (even though it’s hotter than my hands can stand). If a restaurant served me 140 degree coffee, I’d send it back. My preference is 170. It’s not like restaurants all start serving coffee at 140 because of this suit, they just put warning notices on their cups. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/188 "2009-11-27T17:35:00Z")
Do you go around measuring the temp of your coffee before you drink it? Not being snarky, just genuinely curious. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/189 "2009-11-27T17:51:55Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Do you go around measuring the temp of your coffee before you drink it? Not being snarky, just genuinely curious. I measured it when this lawsuit was first in the papers, and again one or more times when it’s popped up on the SDMB in the past. We had a glass cooking thermometer, so I already had the equipment I needed. I’ve done it enough that I now remember the details, so I didn’t have to run and get the thermometer this time. I also measured the temperature of hot water at a faucet at work, where it was so hot it hurt to wash my hands, even putting them under the flow for short times. It happened to be 140, and I tried drinking some. In my mouth, it wasn’t hot, just warm, hence the “lukewarm” comment. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/190 "2009-11-27T18:15:30Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > I measured it when this lawsuit was first in the papers, and again one or more times when it’s popped up on the SDMB in the past. We had a glass cooking thermometer, so I already had the equipment I needed. I completely respect that. No snark. I don’t remember the specific temperatures that were thrown around at the time, but I do remember the woman’s lawyer saying McDonald’s served coffee hotter than other chains. I am also pretty sure that coffee at the temperature I get it (out of my coffee maker at work, at home, at 7-11, at the AM-PM) wouldn’t cause 3rd degree burns and require cosmetic surgery to fix if it spilled all over me. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/191 "2009-11-27T18:31:32Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And I’ve heard it said about the [Mackinac Bridge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackinac_Bridge), too. It’s even in the wiki. “Citation needed”, of course. Not hard to find citations. For [example](http://micah.typepad.com/dogears_wrinkles/2007/05/mackinac_bridge.html): > [@](#): > > Travelers across the Mackinac Bridge can listen to a radio broadcast that specifically tells about the history of the bridge. One fact mentioned on the broadcast is that the painting of the bridge takes seven years, and when painting of the bridge is complete, it begins again. The question is whether you can believe them. It’s a good story, so even if it really _is_ mentioned on the broadcast, I wouldn’t trust it. From a [St. Ignace News article](http://www.stignacenews.com/news/2009-08-20/Front_Page/Mackinac_Bridge_Painters_Use_New_Methods.html) about painting the bridge: > [@](#): > > The lifespan of the paint being used on this project is estimated at 25 years, although with continual maintenance, Mr. Sweeney said they expect it to last closer to 35 years. In two years, Abhe and Svoboda is required, under warranty, to return, inspect the bridge, and touch up any spots that have deteriorated or that weren’t adequately covered in the first place. > > Crews from the Mackinac Bridge Authority will then do their own touch-ups to the painting about every five years. Not a “good story”, just boring information, so I trust this more. This is about new methods being used to paint the bridge, though, so it’s still possible it was true at one time. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/192 "2009-11-27T18:43:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I am also pretty sure that coffee at the temperature I get it (out of my coffee maker at work, at home, at 7-11, at the AM-PM) wouldn’t cause 3rd degree burns and require cosmetic surgery to fix if it spilled all over me. I’m not so sure it’s true that temperatures that won’t burn your mouth also won’t burn you inner thigh skin. It can be surprising how much less hot things can feel in your mouth than on your hands, and I’d expect thigh skin to be less tough than hands. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/193 "2009-11-28T20:40:52Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > This doesn’t appear to be entirely consistent with [the facts](http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts). I’m not sure what you’ve quoted that is inconsistent with your link. On the contrary, it distinctly ignores the facts of coffee preparation and confirms her mishandling of the hot beverage and the fact that it soaked into her sweatpants prolonging her exposure. What part of my statement do you dispute? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/194 "2009-11-28T20:49:22Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I completely respect that. No snark. > > I don’t remember the specific temperatures that were thrown around at the time, but I do remember the woman’s lawyer saying McDonald’s served coffee hotter than other chains. I am also pretty sure that coffee at the temperature I get it (out of my coffee maker at work, at home, at 7-11, at the AM-PM) wouldn’t cause 3rd degree burns and require cosmetic surgery to fix if it spilled all over me. Apparently, \*\*ZenBeam \*\*isn’t the only one [curious enough to measure the temp](http://www.planetfeedback.com/blog/pfb+investigates+-+coffee+temperaturea+hot+subject/318627). Of course, I’m not saying it’s proof per se, but it also should not completely surprising that coffee is usually served pretty close to brew temps. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/195 "2009-11-28T21:06:19Z")
King Canute was not trying to push back the tide; he was deliberately demonstrating his inability to those who were flattering him too much. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/196 "2009-11-29T07:54:26Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m still waiting for you to show us where stretching serves no beneficial purpose whatsoever, and that people who engage in it should be mocked. Actually, I just like to mock people. I didn’t say you should. Did I say it serves no beneficial purpose whatsoever, or no beneficial purpose before running? I think I said before running. But here’s another link: [Phys Ed: How Necessary Is Stretching? - The New York Times](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/phys-ed-how-necessary-is-stretching/?ref=magazine) . There is little evidence that stretching before running helps, and several recent studies calling it into question. If you google “stretching before running myth” you’ll find many links to the studies. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/197 "2009-11-29T08:11:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > King Canute was not trying to push back the tide; he was deliberately demonstrating his inability to those who were flattering him too much. Yeah, but he should have expected the people he was calling a bunch of useless wankers to spin the tale 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/198 "2009-11-30T15:22:38Z")
That the Alpha Male is always the biggest, baddest jerk who gains his power through brute force, acting aggressively, and beating all the other males in combat. When it comes to dating advice, I often see people talking about the alpha male using examples from other species that always fall along these lines. While that can be true for some species, it isn’t true for primates. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/199 "2009-11-30T16:05:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > My favourite are those scientists who _allow venemous creatures to sting or bite them_ in order to rate how painful their attacks are. I’ve been bitten by a bullet ant and I didn’t think it was that bad. Of course, I put Lanacane on it almost immediately afterwards, which probably helped. The problem with scales of those types is that it is subjective for everyone since people react differently to stings and bites. One guy I worked with was stung by a scorpion and had to take the next day off of work, but another coworker who was stung three times in the night had no problem working the next day. ---
**Author:** ![mufatango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@mufatango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mufatango)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225/200 "2009-11-30T18:49:02Z")
I have been stung three separate times by bullet ants, also bitten by them (they will sting repeatedly and while doing so gnaw away with their mandibles, which can give a surprisingly deep laceration), and the only thing that comes close in my experience is a stingray sting. Shocking, blinding, eclipsing pain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-common-knowledge-or-fascinating-anecdotes-that-unfortunately-arent-true-thread/517225.md?page=11)