# Another company found to be "recommending" who their employees vote for. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 26, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953 "2012-10-26T17:29:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/41 "2012-10-30T14:04:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As long as we have a secret ballot, this issue is meaningless. What about when an employer of 20,000 people says: “Vote for my guy, because if the other guy wins, I’ll have to fire all of you.” If only 5% of the employees collectively think: “we’d better vote like our employer wants, to mitigate the risk of getting fired,” that could sway a close election. I don’t see how the secret ballot does anything about that sort of intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/42 "2012-10-30T14:36:58Z")
Free speech can sometimes convince people to vote certain ways. Why is that surprising? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/43 "2012-10-30T14:41:53Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Okay, well [here’s](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/us/politics/bosses-offering-timely-advice-how-to-vote.html?ref=stevengreenhouse&_r=0) an article that says exactly what I said. Show me the money. It may say so, but it is weaselly misinformation. Before CU, there was no specific ban on companies suggesting to their employees how to vote. It was a general ban on companies endorsing or campaigning for political candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/44 "2012-10-30T14:45:04Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I don’t mind “an employer” saying whatever the hell he likes in the public sphere. However, when it comes to communications within the workplace I feel that part of the social compact is that he (or she) shouldn’t be trying to foist their opinions on the employee. Define “foisting” the opinion vs. “communicating” it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/45 "2012-10-30T14:46:59Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > What about when an employer of 20,000 people says: “Vote for my guy, because if the other guy wins, I’ll have to fire all of you.” If only 5% of the employees collectively think: “we’d better vote like our employer wants, to mitigate the risk of getting fired,” that could sway a close election. I don’t see how the secret ballot does anything about that sort of intimidation. What’s “intimidation” to you is “communicating the state of the business and its direction” to others. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/46 "2012-10-30T15:09:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The best thing that can be said is that the same Court who decided Citizens United might well also decide that such employer statements to their employees are also protected by the First Amendment. As might [the Republicans on the FEC](http://eqs.nictusa.com/eqsdocsMUR/12044320562.pdf) (but [not the Democrats](http://eqs.nictusa.com/eqsdocsMUR/12044314776.pdf)). ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/47 "2012-10-30T15:09:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Free speech can sometimes convince people to vote certain ways. Why is that surprising? Because, given the nature of the employer/employee relationship, this treads uncomfortably close to “Vote for my guy or I’ll punch you in the face.” I suppose it comes down to whether you believe the employers really _will_ fire their employees if the wrong guy gets elected. I tend to be quite skeptical of those claims; I suspect most such employers have no plans to fire people, but simply hope that their threats increase the chances that they get a president whose policies ultimately allow for fatter executive bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/48 "2012-10-30T15:18:24Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > When I lived in Hawaii, I heard stories of the old days where plantation workers who did not vote “properly” were fired. Can’t remember the exact logistics, but it involved the stylus or pen used in voting. It was tied to a poll overhead, and observers could see by which direction the sting was stretching toward how the vote was being made. I’d pretend to be indecisive. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/49 "2012-10-30T15:36:51Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > When I lived in Hawaii, I heard stories of the old days where plantation workers who did not vote “properly” were fired. Can’t remember the exact logistics, but it involved the stylus or pen used in voting. It was tied to a poll overhead, and observers could see by which direction the sting was stretching toward how the vote was being made. > [@Kozmik](#): > > I’d pretend to be indecisive. 😃 My recollection on this is imperfect, but from what I remember being told, you had the ballot for one party on the left side and the ballot with all the other party’s candidates on the other side. They could tell by seeing the direction of the string going left or right which party you went for. I’m sure there was more to it than that. It sounds odd having whole individual ballots one for each party. But I’m guesing if you flat out didn’t vote for the approved party even by saying you couldn’t decide and so didn’t vote at all, then you’d be canned. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/50 "2012-10-30T15:44:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What’s “intimidation” to you is “communicating the state of the business and its direction” to others. If you don’t give me your lunch money I’m afraid I may have to punch you in the face. Intimidation or just “communicated the state of our negotiation and its direction”? In the end there isn’t much you can do about this without infringing on political speech more broadly than I’d be comfortable. But pretending it’s not intimidation is silly, IMO (just like pretending union campaigning doesn’t sometimes involve intimidation is also silly). ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/51 "2012-10-30T15:45:59Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > My recollection on this is imperfect, but from what I remember being told, you had the ballot for one party on the left side and the ballot with all the other party’s candidates on the other side. They could tell by seeing the direction of the string going left or right which party you went for. I’m sure there was more to it than that. It sounds odd having whole individual ballots one for each party. But I’m guesing if you flat out didn’t vote for the approved party even by saying you couldn’t decide and so didn’t vote at all, then you’d be canned. I mean, turn your pen left then right then left then right… 😛 Vote while “deciding” and they will not know who you voted for, exit the poll with a confused look on your face and you’ll be golden. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/52 "2012-10-30T15:48:14Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > If you don’t give me your lunch money I’m afraid I may have to punch you in the face. If there is no way to find out whether you got the lunch money or not, that threat has no meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/53 "2012-10-30T15:53:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If there is no way to find out whether you got the lunch money or not, that threat has no meaning. OK, let’s tighten the analogy. “If I don’t get $5 bucks total from all 10 of you nerds slipped into my locker I will beat up all of you”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/54 "2012-10-30T16:01:10Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > OK, let’s tighten the analogy. > > “If I don’t get $5 bucks total from all 10 of you nerds slipped into my locker I will beat up all of you”. Let’s tighten the analogy even more: “If I don’t get $5 bucks total from all 10 of you nerds slipped into my locker, I won’t be buying pizza for everyone at the poker game”. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/55 "2012-10-30T16:14:07Z")
Hm, that’s more of a loosening, to my way of thinking. Employment is not really analogous to a group donation to buy pizza. Getting fired at least has something in common with getting beat up. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/56 "2012-10-30T16:15:28Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Hm, that’s more of a loosening, to my way of thinking. Employment is not really analogous to a group donation to buy pizza. Getting fired at least has something in common with getting beat up. And voting is not really analogous to giving someone money. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/57 "2012-10-30T16:20:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And voting is not really analogous to giving someone money. But I thought there were 47% of voters who only vote so the government will give them money? 😉 Look, I agree that this activity probably shouldn’t be illegal. But it is, IMO, highly unethical. We can play around with analogous situations all day (and I’m happy to… how about “If I’m not elected homecoming king I’ll kick you all off the chess team (which I’m somehow president of…)”?) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/58 "2012-10-30T16:24:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Let’s tighten the analogy even more: > > “If I don’t get $5 bucks total from all 10 of you nerds slipped into my locker, I won’t be buying pizza for everyone at the poker game”. Better still: if I don’t get $5 from everyone to buy a TV for my summer home I will cancel the poker game. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/59 "2012-10-30T17:10:10Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Look, I agree that this activity probably shouldn’t be illegal. But it is, IMO, highly unethical. We can play around with analogous situations all day (and I’m happy to… how about “If I’m not elected homecoming king I’ll kick you all off the chess team (which I’m somehow president of…)”?) LOL talk about an unrealistic scenario 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953/60 "2012-10-30T17:21:14Z")
A member of my household is in the teacher’s union in Nevada. I can confirm that unions do indeed distribute literature announcing which candidates they support, making arguments against the opposing candidates, and predicting financial hardship (or lost jobs) if the other guy wins. I can also confirm that Wynn’s literature is pretty much the same thing. It does not differ in tone or content from the teacher’s union stuff, does not take a threatening tone, but rather predicts that the “wrong” candidate being elected will screw things up and create a financial hardship for you. I’ve seen the Wynn voter pamphlet, and it does not differ from the union literature in any significant way other than which name gets placed in the good or bad category. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-company-found-to-be-recommending-who-their-employees-vote-for/638953.md?page=4)