# Another concealed-carry question: Reciprocity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 27, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421 "2001-08-27T22:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/1 "2001-08-27T22:30:42Z")
Apparently the principle of reciprocity is that the States will honor each other’s laws. The whole point of the so-called “Defense of Marriage” act is that if one state allows gay marriages, all the other states would be forced to accept them as legal. All the states accept each other’s driver’s licenses. So is there a legal principle behind a state not allowing someone to carry a concealed weapon if they have a licence from their home state? I would appreciate it if answers could be focused only on the legal aspects. Thanks! Fenris ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/2 "2001-08-27T22:39:11Z")
well, my understanding is that currently each state’s permits are only good in the state where issued. (my da-yaddy has a permit to carry in the state of Florida - so sorry Floridians, not my fault, and cannot legally carry when he’s back here). Although marriages/divorces are considered across the country, not everything is. Some things, like a driver’s license are only ok for a period of time in another state (for example, my friend Annie when she moved to West Vir. had to quickly get her license changed due to their laws, but a friend of mine who lived in Texas kept his Texas license for about a year or so after moving to Michigan). The granting of a liquor license for example is very case specific (as in the holder I think, cannot just move across town and ‘carry it with’, certainly isn’t allowed to cross state lines with it). Right to practice certain professions, too (doctors, lawyers etc.) each state has their own licensing requirements. So, it would appear that permit to carry falls into that set of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/3 "2001-08-27T23:44:06Z")
The only difference I can see is that marriage is a fairly universal thing. A state may justify not honoring an out of state concealed carry permit by writing extremely specific requirements into the law such as mandating that those carrying pass a course approved by that state. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/4 "2001-08-28T00:21:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **well, my understanding is that currently each state’s permits are only good in the state where issued.** Incorrect. Some states do honor CCW permits from other states. It’s up to the permit holder to find out if he’s legal or not. These laws are constantly changing, so be sure the information you get is correct before traveling. **Wisconsin** does not honor anyones CCW permits, and does not issue any. Only peace officers are allowed to cary in this state. And you must be a peace officer from this state in order to carry concealed in this state. Out of state cops are considered civilians here, and not allowed to CCW while visiting. The only exception being federal law enforcement officers. There is no law, state or local, which prohibits carrying a gun openly. The gun laws here are ridiculous!:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/5 "2001-08-28T01:36:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*Wisconsin …[t]here is no law, state or local, which prohibits carrying a gun openly. The gun laws here are ridiculous!:mad: \*\* Michigan’s the same way. It’s _perfectly_ legal to carry a gun openly. Courts have declared that “openly” includes visible holsters worn outside the clothing. “Openly” does NOT include putting on a coat over your holster (thus concealing it), and does NOT cover carrying inside an automobile (this is also considered concealing). _However_, some counties and/or cities (such as wacky Wayne County/Detroit) ban open carry as something like “public nuisance” or something to the effect. Luckily, Michigan’s finally succeeded in becoming a right-to-carry state. County Gun Boards (the “approving authority”) can no longer turn down CCW applications for their political beliefs and other arbitrary reasons (and reserve CCWs for their buddies). This doesn’t stop wacky Wanye County from artificially creating barriers, though (for example, fingerprints are a 3-month wait, unless it’s for any other reason). As far as the “open carry” applies, I’m sure a lot of other states are similar. \While in Texas until 1996, it was an open carry state, much like Michigan. Then, the great George W. made the state a right-to-carry state.\ ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/6 "2001-08-28T16:05:40Z")
ok **pkites** - I was certain that a permit to carry in one state was not universally accepted in other states (thus the answer to **Fenris’** question), but it seems the proper way to phrase it is: Any state can (and does) determine for themselves ‘permit’ issues for both residents and visitors. Therefore, the fact that the State of Florida trusts you to carry \*\*in no way obligates \*\* any other state to do so. The state of Florida can also **choose** to recognize valid permits issued by other states, but they are under no obligation to do so (vs. say the marriage laws, if one gets married in Nevada, the other states are **obligated** to recognize the marriage). And, as always with laws, your very, very best bet is to **check carefully** before you assume anything. (so, don’t rely either on a message board or your Uncle Henry’s barber’s statement “yea, that state lets you do such and such”.) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/7 "2001-08-28T17:33:56Z")
**wring** - If your dad has a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm license, he can carry concealed in the following states: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, and Wyoming. Similarly, any person with a permit from any of these states may carry in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/8 "2001-08-28T17:39:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bear\_Nenno \* > \*\ ***wring** - > If your dad has a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm license, he can carry concealed in the following states: (snip)Michigan,(snip) \*\* :eek: :eek: :eek: Please, for the love of all that’s good and holy, do **not** give this information to “our father who art in Florida, Herbert be his name”. My siblings, our children and I will be eternally grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/9 "2001-08-28T18:51:51Z")
California will also not grant reciprocity for concealed/carry permits issued in other states. My brother has a CCW issued in Washington state, and cannot carry in CA. Interestingly, he was a US Army Ranger when he applied, and all the guys who wanted permits got them, with a minimum of fuss. Is that just Washington’s policy, or did they assume that members of the Special Operation community had a better grasp of firearms safety and use? ---
**Author:** ![breaknrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@breaknrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breaknrun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/10 "2001-08-28T18:53:09Z")
I would think it would depend on whether a law is state or federally regulated. States recognize marriages in other states because it simplifies things but they don’t have to. Things that are federal laws like discrimination laws have to be observed by every state. However, if a state gets to make it’s own laws about something, those laws don’t _have_ to be observed by other states. Does this make sense? Since each state can make it’s own laws regarding CCW, qualifying for CCW under one state doesn’t guarantee that you qualify under another state’s laws so that other state doesn’t have to recognize your CCW. I hope this isn’t a hijack but maybe to illustrate the point - I think if gay marriage becomes legal in a state, you are going to see that some other states won’t recognize them and they (currently) have a right not to. The states were given enough power to govern themselves so they didn’t have to feel concern about us having too strong a central gov’t. I haven’t been following this issue but I believe at least 2 states were considering laws to this effect when the discussion in Hawaii was starting to be news. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/11 "2001-08-28T20:29:14Z")
Well, after all the discussion and speculation, I guess it’s time for a factual answer: [http://www.nraila.org/recmap/usrecmap.htm](http://www.nraila.org/recmap/usrecmap.htm) Click on the state where your permit (if one is required) was issued, and it will return a list of states that will honor it. Bear\_Nenno: My list agrees with yours, with the exception of Alabama – They aren’t on mine. What’s your source? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/12 "2001-08-28T20:35:38Z")
actually **Joe** , the OP asks not “which states honor other states permit to carry”, but ‘what is the legal principal’ to differentiate between right to carry and say, marriage laws (where other states are required to honor other states action), which \*\*Padeye, breaknrun & I \*\* attempt to cover. ---
**Author:** ![breaknrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@breaknrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breaknrun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/13 "2001-08-28T20:41:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*So is there a legal principle behind a state not allowing someone to carry a concealed weapon if they have a licence from their home state? > > I would appreciate it if answers could be focused only on the legal aspects. > \*\* **Joe\_Cool** , not trying to be a nit but this is the real question we’re trying to answer. Fenris isn’t asking what states grant reciprocity for CCW but what is the legal basis for reciprocity. I’m guessing there isn’t one except maybe convenience but IANAL. Hmm, where’s **Bricker** when you actually want to hear from a lawyer? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/14 "2001-08-28T20:41:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Bear\_Nenno: My list agrees with yours, with the exception of Alabama – They aren’t on mine. What’s your source? \*\* > [@](#): > > Alabama and Florida have entered into a joint reciprocity agreement regarding “Right to Carry” permits. Effective August 1, 2001 valid carry permit holders from each state may carry across state lines. from [this](http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state) page on the NRA ILA site. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/15 "2001-08-28T20:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*actually **Joe** , the OP asks not “which states honor other states permit to carry”, but ‘what is the legal principal’ to differentiate between right to carry and say, marriage laws (where other states are required to honor other states action), which \*\*Padeye, breaknrun & I \*\* attempt to cover. \*\* heh, that’s what I get for skimming the thread too fast. Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![breaknrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@breaknrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breaknrun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/16 "2001-08-28T21:12:50Z")
Found this [site](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/5902.html). It shows title 15, chap. 85 sec. 5902 of the US code if I linked properly, which deals specifically with state reciprocity for the armored car industry. Of course this doesn’t deal with the general issue we’re interested in but the way I read this, federal law can insist on states granting reciprocity for certain things under certain circumstances. Here is [another](http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/25/00112.htm) site which talks about marriage reciprocity laws in AZ. > [@](#): > > \*\* > A. Marriages valid by the laws of the place where contracted are valid in this state, except marriages that are void and > prohibited by section 25-101.\*\* . And from sec. 25-101. > [@](#): > > \*\* > C. Marriage between persons of the same sex is void and prohibited. > \*\* . So we see that states don’t automatically grant reciprocity. Gay marriages aren’t going to be legal here even if they are legal elsewhere. You also can’t leave the state to get a gay marriage somwhere else where it is legal and have that marriage considered valid. What we need is a federal reciprocity law and I’d bet my britches that ain’t gonna happen anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/17 "2001-08-28T21:25:43Z")
**breaknrun** & **wring** have it precisely right. If the so-called “Defense of Marriage” act is needed to “protect” states from not having to recognize gay marriage (and we went through this in Colorado and BOTH sides said that if Hawaii legalized gay marriages, without the so-called “Defense of Marriage” law in place Colorado would be _forced_ to honor those marriages. Drivers licenses are honored for a certain amount of time, as (I believe) are Doctor and Lawyer’s licenses. If I’m driving through a state, my driver’s license is good for the trip, so why isn’t my (hypothetical) concealed-carry permit? Given that, what is the legal principal that “forces” states to accept each other’s marriage licenses and driver’s licenses, but not accept each other’s concealed-carry licenses. What _is_ covered under reciprocity? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-concealed-carry-question-reciprocity/78421/18 "2001-08-28T23:06:33Z")
From what I’ve read on the NRA site (laws and reciprocity, not commentary), it seems to me that a given state tends to offer reciprocity to residents of states with similar and stricter laws than it has itself. Example: Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws in the country. They honor carry permits from anybody, since they have no restrictions on carrying whatsoever anyway. New Jersey has some of the most draconian laws in the nation, and does not honor carry permits issued in any other state (not even New York). So wherever your state is on the scale, it seems that your permit will tend to be honored in most states that are on a similar or lower level.