# Another conspiracy theory crawls out of the woodwork. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480 "2001-09-24T13:42:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/1 "2001-09-24T13:42:36Z")
On a board I frequently post at, there is a guy who is a left-wing anarchist. He started posting regularly after a few of us from this board infiltrated the “justicefiles” message board and asked the admin (who we soon discovered was Bill Sheehan) some pointed questions. Needless to say, this poster (Drew Hendricks) who had no association with Sheehan ended up adressing all the questions we asked, while Mr. Bill basically told us to “\*\*\*\* off” (rather amusing considering Bill’s page encouraged open debate, that is, open debate if you agreed with him.) So recently Drew posted a conspiracy theory of his own at [http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article\_id=66651&group=webcast](http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=66651&group=webcast). The article is quoted below (bear in mind I don’t subscribe to his opinion, I’m only posting this to hear other Doper’s thoughts). Also anyone who wants to can go to the above URL and post responses to Drew as well. (I find it rather amusing that he mentions the Pearl Harbor conspiracy, although it appears he at least doesn’t buy into that one.) > [@](#): > > Did the U.S. let this happen? Wacky theories (english) > by Drew 10:58pm Sun Sep 23 '01 (Modified on 5:58am Mon Sep 24 '01) > Did the U.S. allow the 9/11 attacks in order to spark a conflict in Afghanistan? Is this truly another Pearl Harbor? > > Wacky Lefty Theories > The attacks on Pearl Harbor were blamed on Roosevelt, by some, > because “we knew beforehand” that the Japanese would attack. > (For background, read almost any > history of Cryptography written after 1970.) > > According to the accusation, Roosevelt wanted an incident to > break an isolationist deadlock in the Congress and lead us to > war in Europe and in the Pacific. > > But would an American President treat his citizens so badly? > > Roosevelt treated many that badly, but only those of Japanese or German heritage… > > More recently, some have suggested that the 9/11 attacks were > provocations allowed by the United States government to spark > our support for a ground offensive against Afghanistan. Why? > The theory goes, Unocal wants to build a pipeline through the > countries of Turkmenistan and Afghanistan to Pakistan. To do > that, they would need a government in Afghanistan which would > support Unocal and other corporations doing business in > Afghanistan without interference. > > But what support is there for such an outlandish theory? > GAS PIPELINE PLANS > > US STATE DEPARTMENT COUNTRY STUDY: > > “Besides initiatives taken under the aegis of the ECO, > Turkmenistan signed a cooperation agreement with Pakistan in > late 1991 and obtained a promise of US$10 million in credit and > goods from Pakistan in 1992. The two countries signed memoranda > in 1995 for the construction of a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan > through Afghanistan to Pakistan. The Bridas company of Argentina > was engaged to do a feasibility study for the pipeline.” > > “As of 1996, all of Turkmenistan’s gas pipelines went north into > the Russian Federation or other CIS states, thus subordinating > sectors of its economic development to that of relatively poor > countries.” > > “In January 1994, Niyazov made an official visit to Tehran, and > the two countries held a second round of talks in Ashgabat in > June to create an intergovernmental center for consultation and > coordination on socioeconomic questions. According to bilateral > agreements, Iranian specialists will aid in renovating the > Turkmenbashy Oil Refinery and the Mary Cotton Processing Plant, > building the Turkmenistan-Iran-Europe Gas Pipeline, and > constructing the Ashgabat-Tehran, Mary- Mashhad-Turkmenbashy, > and Gudurol-Gorgan highways.” > > “Alexander Haig, former United States secretary of state, acting > as consultant to President Niyazov, played a leading role in > negotiating most-favored-nation trading status for Turkmenistan > in 1993.” > > SOURCE: [http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/tmtoc.html](http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/tmtoc.html) > > FOREKNOWLEDGE > > Newsweek 9/24/2001: > > p. 34: “On Sept 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top > Pentagon officials suddenly cancelled travel plans for the > next morning, apparently because of security concerns.” > > The officials are left nameless, as are their specific > titles and offices. The source is not stated or implied. > > p. 33: “According to intelligence sources, on Aug. 21 the > CIA passed along information to the Immigration and > Naturalization Service on a man who belonged on the watch list > for terror suspects. The man, Khalid al-Midhar, had been > videotaped in Kuala Lumpur talking to one of the suspected > terrorists in the Cole bombing (the man is now in jail in > Yemen). When the INS ran its database, it found that > al-Midhar was already in the United States. The CIA asked the > Federal Bureau of Investigaton to find him and an associate, > Salem Alhamzi.” (These two were among the hijackers later > announced by the FBI as having been on Flight 77) > > The source is only hinted at; the reason for the suspects’ > elusiveness is that they were allowed to list their address > on INS papers as “The Mariott Hotel in New York.” ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/2 "2001-09-24T13:52:22Z")
Since for some reason the board won’t let me edit my posts, I’m posting a new message. It appears that a period ended up in the URL above, so when clicked on it bypasses the original message from Drew. New URL: [http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article\_id=66651&group=webcast](http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=66651&group=webcast) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/3 "2001-09-24T14:19:45Z")
I’m surprised at _Newsweek_, publishing something so paranoid. “Pentagon Officials canceled their trip, but we can’t tell you who told us that, because if They found out that we told you, They would have us killed…” Betcha a nickel there’s a perfectly rational reason why “certain Pentagon officials” canceled a trip the day before. And I don’t see the point of the “CIA couldn’t find him even though he was living at the Marriott Hotel” squib. In a word–huh? So he wasn’t where he said he was going to be, so what? I’m not following the logic of the “Gas Pipeline” argument, either. The Feds blew up the WTC and the Pentagon so as to ensure the continued possession by someone of a single gas pipeline, but who? Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Iran? I have the feeling there’s a paragraph missing. And what does Haig have to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/4 "2001-09-24T22:39:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > [ The Feds blew up the WTC and the Pentagon so as to ensure the continued possession by someone of a single gas pipeline, but who? Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Iran? I have the feeling there’s a paragraph missing. And what does Haig have to do with it? \*\* I suspect the pipe-line the poster is refering to is the pipe which was planned to be build from Turkmenistan to Pakistan through Afghanistan by the Californian company UNOCAL, whith the participation of several other countries (South Korea, Japan, and some others I can’t remember). It has been said that this pipe-line project was the main reason for the supposed continued support to the Talibans by the CIA after the withdrawal of the Soviets from Afghanistan. There were concurrent projects involving Iran, and another involving, I believe, China. A lot of people/copanies/countries are interested in Turkmenistan’s gas. The UNOCAL project has been abandonned in 1998, when the US attacked Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/5 "2001-09-24T23:52:42Z")
clairobscur wrote: > [@](#): > > A lot of people/copanies/countries are interested in Turkmenistan’s gas. **That’s** odd. According to [this chart from the U.S. Department of Energy](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/iea/tablef4.html), Turkmenistan produced less than a quadrillion BTUs of natural gas in 1999. Compare this with the U.S., which produced 19 quadrillion BTUs of natural gas in 1999, and Russia, which produced nearly 21 quadrillion BTUs of natural gas in 1999. Why would Turkmenistan’s paltry 0.82 BTUs of natural gas be of such overwhelming economic importance? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/6 "2001-09-24T23:54:39Z")
(correction: Turkmenistan’s paltry 0.82 **quadrillion** BTUs of natural gas. 0.82 BTUs is less than the amount of heat generated by burning one wooden match.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/7 "2001-09-25T00:01:34Z")
I bet those planes actually took off from the grassy knoll. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/8 "2001-09-26T13:19:20Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by tracer \* \*\*clairobscur wrote: > [@](#): > > Why would Turkmenistan’s paltry 0.82 BTUs of natural gas be of such overwhelming economic importance? \*\* I asked Drew about this and here’s his response: > [@](#): > > \*\*The overall point is that two of the three pipleines mentioned were notional, so the production figures would not reflect the possible production, would it? After all, who is going to produce the stuff only to bottle it and pack it out by camel? > > The point of US oil policy is not to produce all of it now, but to have a market hand in EVERY pie to control the price and delay the use of our vast reserves here at home. The long term plan is to have high productivity into the 23rd century while the rest of the world is stuggling to have enough winter fuel to survive. > > This is one example of long range planning, for good or ill… \*\* ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/9 "2001-09-27T01:50:09Z")
So they are willing to sacrifice 7,000-8,000 lives, wreck the Pentagon, bring the country to a recession, and in the process revitalize the career of Rudolph Guiliani, the one person who made a career out of stopping criminal business cartels, for what? A little oil in the 23rd century? What about dilithium crystals then? Besides, this potential pipe is going through Afghanistan. What is to prevent pipe tapping on part of the impoverished, to the extent of what is happening in Nigeria, or even of a larger scale? You gotta do better conspiracy than that. I have a simpler idea of what happened: I think that this is a conspiracy by the cable and satellite dish operators and cable networs, so that there will be no more free TV in the New York area. CNN and the other cable news stations are involved because their ratings were very poor for the longest while. It needed a crisis to boost the ratings. So what is a better way of doing both things at once than dealing with terrorists to knock out the WTC. A few lives will be lost, but therewill be a lot more cable subscriptions of people who have to watch it all on CNN or on Fox News. And sure enough, the networks affected by the WTC collapes suggested that it will take at least 1-3 years to have the reception quality it had at the WTC.) Notice how they manage to stifle the fact that many of the terrorists involved were already questioned, and that no intelligence agerncy of the government, except for a select few well-placed news sources, managed to ‘put it together’. Also note the lack of reporters dying as a result of these terrorist acts. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/10 "2001-09-27T02:00:59Z")
But, as in all conspiracies, there has to be more. Now, who else benefits from the tragedy? Of course, Amtrak!! Look at the hugely increased ridership and cargo supplies on part of the freight RR companies after all flights were banned. How come nobody is looking at that connection? Just weeks ago there were talks of putting it out of business or privatizing it. There must be huge fans of Amtrak, or Amtrak personnel looking desparately to save their jobs. What is a better way of showing the viability of the railroad, than exposing airline security, or the lack of it thereof? I suggest that the FBI investigate aiplane personnel and check for those who used to work for Amtrak or other RR companies, I believe that there you will find your boxcutter smugglers. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/11 "2001-10-19T14:33:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*So they are willing to sacrifice 7,000-8,000 lives, wreck the Pentagon, bring the country to a recession, and in the process revitalize the career of Rudolph Guiliani, the one person who made a career out of stopping criminal business cartels, for what? A little oil in the 23rd century? What about dilithium crystals then? > > Besides, this potential pipe is going through Afghanistan. What is to prevent pipe tapping on part of the impoverished, to the extent of what is happening in Nigeria, or even of a larger scale?\*\* Good points. However, Drew just posted a link that although still doesn’t provide any proof to a conspiracy, does raise some questions about possible alterior motives. [http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/oil.html](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/oil.html) ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/12 "2001-10-19T14:47:46Z")
If the US government had _really_ been seeking an excuse to attack Afghanistan, couldn’t they have used Bin Laden’s other bombings? I don’t think that there would be much need to wait for an event so dramatic that it threatens to tip the West well into recession. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/13 "2001-10-19T15:54:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sirjamesp \* > **If the US government had _really_ been seeking an excuse to attack Afghanistan, couldn’t they have used Bin Laden’s other bombings?** Maybe they didn’t think they could get the rest of the world behind them until now? I don’t believe the U.S. had anything to do with the attacks (_if_ our government wanted to create a reason to attack Afghanistan, there no doubt would have been much better ways to go about it for everyone concerned), but it does raise the question of are we doing all this purely to stop terrorism, or are there other underlying motives. The guy from UNOCAL seemed to think that running a pipeline through Afghanistan would be a good idea. The U.S. could have the chance to set up a new regime loyal to the U.S. in Afghanistan, which would no doubt expedite a building of a pipeline there. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2001, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/14 "2001-10-20T05:19:00Z")
Wow. This is kind of sad. I recently read that in Indonesia there is a conspiracy theory which says the WTC attacks were masterminded by Jews, hoping to provoke the US into attacking Islam and consolidating US-Israeli relations. So we have the capitalists and the Jews…I guess the gays and the blacks will be next. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2001, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/15 "2001-10-20T09:49:15Z")
Can you prove the Taliban would not permit a pipeline through Afghanistan? I have read [other sources](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/afghan.html) that say they are amenable to the idea. I think Unocal would have bribed the Taliban before letting the WTC get blown up. > [@](#): > > In January 1998, the Taliban signed an agreement that would allow a proposed 890-mile, $2-billion, 1.9-billion-cubic-feet-per-day natural gas pipeline project led by Unocal to proceed. As for Roosevelt, it is [not clear](http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p431_Lutton.html) he knew about the attack in advance. Yes, there was the “East Wind Rain” intercept, and some other things. Not exactly a clear-cut case of duplicity. The “foreknowledge” point is pretty weak. There were terrorist warnings all the time for years leading up to the WTC. Also, the attack hurt our economy, cut oil consumption, and caused a dramatic rollback in prices. Cut off nose = spite face. I think this is hogwash. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2001, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/16 "2001-10-20T09:57:43Z")
Unocal pulled out for several reasons. I guess there is an argument that a different government in Afghanistan could have produced some advantages. Or, Unocal could have tried to moderate the Taliban slightly and push for international recogniton. That seems smarter than letting the WTC get blown up. Anyhoo, the other arguments need no correction. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2001, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/17 "2001-10-20T16:05:30Z")
Okay, let’s see if I’m following this. From the Congressional Record link. > [@](#): > > Second, the need for U.S. support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements to the conflicts in the region, including Afghanistan. So, in order to get extra pipelines built through Afghanistan, the U.S. would have to get rid of the Taliban. The best excuse to get rid of the Taliban would be to declare that they’re harboring terrorists, and here’s Bin Laden ready to hand, ready to blame for something. So the Feds blow up the Pentagon and the WTC, kill 6,000 people, and blame it all on Osama Bin Laden and declare war on the Taliban, just so’s we can put a couple more oil pipelines through Afghanistan. Hmmm… Nope, sorry, it doesn’t work for me. But here’s _my_ theory, FWIW. Last year Motorola was in deep doo-doo, especially their cell phone division. They were laying people off by the thousands. [http://216.34.146.180/toit/08info7.htm](http://216.34.146.180/toit/08info7.htm) > [@](#): > > Motorola stock plunges 23% to 8-year low > CHICAGO: Motorola’s already-ailing stock crumbled 23 percent to an eight-year low Friday in a frenzied selloff sparked off by fears it will report more bad news next week and speculation - strongly denied by the company - that it’s running out of cash. [http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/breaking/0906motorola06-ON.html](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/breaking/0906motorola06-ON.html) > [@](#): > > Motorola slashes 2,000 more jobs; stock plunges > Associated Press > Sept. 06, 2001 09:55:00 > CHICAGO - Motorola Inc. eliminated 2,000 more jobs today as a result of the continuing slump in the telecommunications industry, bringing its job cuts to more than 20 percent of its work force since December. The cuts will come from a sector that includes operations in Arizona. Motorola is Arizona’s second-largest private employer. > The company, mired in a long slump, said softer-than-expected demand for telecommunications equipment has resulted in sales being flat in the third quarter rather than up 5 percent as anticipated. But now Motorola stock is doing much better. [http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/12/europe.markets/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/12/europe.markets/index.html) > [@](#): > > Markets look for Q3 signals > October 15, 2001 Posted: 5:18 AM EDT (0918 GMT) > By CNN’s Sonia Sequeira > LONDON, England (CNN) – As the third-quarter reporting season kicks off on both sides of the Atlantic, the market focus is shifting back to buying opportunities. > Confidence is slowly coming back following a month of uncertainty, with European bourses returning to levels seen before the September 11 terror attacks on the United States. > > “The start we’ve had so far this week from GE, Yahoo and Motorola – most the results we’ve seen have been in line or slightly better than expected,” says David Thwaites, market strategist at investment bank BNP Paribas. What changed? Iridium satellite phones were the only phones that continued to work at Ground Zero in the hours after WTC. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/13/satellite-phones.htm#more](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/13/satellite-phones.htm#more) > [@](#): > > The newspaper also said that such news organizations as CNN and such humanitarian groups as the American Red Cross have turned to Iridium phones to communicate from the disaster scenes since terrorists flew planes into New York’s World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. > > Iridium’s ability to bypass cellphone towers and land-based telephone lines has helped as rescuers and others deal with the aftermath at the crash sites and elsewhere > > Cellphone service in lower Manhattan failed when the towers that transmit signals came crashing down along with the World Trade Center buildings. Land lines proved useless after authorities shut off utilities to the area. Made by Motorola. > **[Satellite Telephones](https://mjsales.net/collections/satellite-telephones)** > > Sat phone by Iridium, Ligado, Cobham, Globalstar and Inmarsat. MSAT-G2 dispatch radio systems for land and maritime. Iridium fly away kits MCOM1 However, the boom isn’t panning out quite the way they hoped– [http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3T6MJMXSC](http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3T6MJMXSC) > [@](#): > > S&P downgrades Motorola for second time this year > By Nikki Tait in Chicago > Published: October 17 2001 22:13 | Last Updated: October 17 2001 22:42 > Standard & Poor’s, one of the big US ratings agencies, on Wednesday downgraded Motorola for the second time this year. It cut the corporate credit rating to BBB+, having previously lowered this from A to A- in May. > S&P said that deteriorating economic conditions - exasperated by the September 11 attacks - could “substantially” delay any recovery in the loss-making semiconductor division, and that growth in cellular phone handset sales next year could also be more muted as a result. –so this is probably the source of the predictions of more bombings of shopping malls at Halloween. They’ve gotta get all those American soccer moms behind the “buy an Iridium phone” program. Hey, if Drew can have the Feds doing it for cheap gasoline, I guess I can have Motorola doing it for telephones. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2001, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/18 "2001-10-20T16:27:30Z")
I thought Iridium went bankrupt and let all their satellites fall out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere. Also, any honest book on cryptography written after the 1970s will tell you that the US did not have any advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack. There have also been several threads here on that point, in which the case for a conspiracy has been pretty thoroughly dismantled. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2001, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-crawls-out-of-the-woodwork/83480/19 "2001-10-20T18:43:05Z")
waterj2 wrote: > [@](#): > > I thought Iridium went bankrupt and let all their satellites fall out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere. AFAIK, Motorola sold off (or is in the process of selling off) its unprofitable Iridium satellites to other companies. Satellites in Low Earth Orbit, such as Iridium, are indeed subject to slight amounts of drag from the outermost fringes of Earth’s atmosphere. Such satellites have to be designed with orbital-correction thrusters, which can provide tiny amounts of oomph to the satellite every so often and thereby keep its orbit from decaying. But once such a self-contained low-Earth-orbiting satellite is up there, as far as I know, it costs next-to-nothing to just keep firing its orbital-correction thrusters on the regular pre-programmed schedule. The satellite is built and launched with enough fuel on board to perform orbital-correction thruster burns for several years. Motorola would have had no reason to shut off these orbital-correction burns. In fact, had they done so, they would have lost all the potential revenue they could have gotten from selling the satellites to other companies – such a move would probably violate the Prudent Man Rule that corporations are required to follow.