# Another conspiracy theory, this time liberal: voting machines **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 19, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244 "2012-10-19T16:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/1 "2012-10-19T16:58:32Z")
Of course, conservatives aren’t alone in fear of conspiracies. The fact that computerized voting machines are often manufactured and run by large corporations, whose owners tend to skew Republican, has been a topic of discussion amongst liberals ever since electronic voting machines have been in wide use. It’s flaring up again, based on [this article](http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/12130-will-hig-owned-e-voting-machines-give-romney-the-white-house#.) on what is (as far as I can tell) a _pretty_ liberal website, telling of the head honchos of the company running the machines in the Ohio, who’ve apparently supported Mitt Romney. Granted, this is a lot more likely to be true than most 9/11 or JFK theories, but right now, it’s still a conspiracy theory, especially since, obviously, nothing’s actually _happened_ yet. But what do you make of all this? On a practical note, is there anything actually stopping the people involved from doing what this article fears, besides a huge lead for Obama in Ohio before Election Day? If not, should there be? If so, what? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/2 "2012-10-19T18:58:05Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > On a practical note, is there anything actually stopping the people involved from doing what this article fears, besides a huge lead for Obama in Ohio before Election Day? If not, should there be? If so, what? Machines with porprietary, closed source software which you aren’t allowed to examine, on machines which leave no paper trail and are known to be easily hackable and owned by companies whose executives have been outspoken in favour of one political party, having famously promised to deliver a state for Bush and such like. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy, but if we’re worried about undermining faith in the electoral system it’s a hell of a lot more likely to cause that than the almost total nonexistence of voter-fraud. I’d suggest reading [this article](http://www.gregpalast.com/its-magic/#more-7067), which points out how you can rig an election without rigging it at all. Send unreliable machines to black precincts, as he points out those areas are about five times as likely to have votes “lost” as white areas, you bias a vote in favour of the Republicans, because black votes aren’t Republican votes. But even forgetting that, the whole idea of any paper-less voting machine relies on having complete trust in the industry which gave us the term “cover-up” (originating in Sequoia Voting Systems bribery of a Supreme Court judge). Examples from that article: > [@](#): > > In Sarasota in 2006, Republicans held on to the congressional seat vacated by Katherine Harris by a mere 369 votes after new computerized voting machines simply failed to record a choice in the race on eighteen thousand ballots, mostly from Democratic precincts. > [@](#): > > In a tight contest in Georgia, Diebold machines simply refused to operate and record votes in several black precincts. According to the company, the machines don’t work well in very humid, hot conditions. “Well, what do you think we get in Georgia in July!” the losing candidate, Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, told me. In the white precincts, voting was held in air-conditioned suburban school gyms. > [@](#): > > Theron Horton, a Taos-based data analyst who assists the Election Defense Alliance, has discovered that Hispanics who vote on electronic DREs are 491 percent more likely to have their vote disappear. > > And Native Americans? Computers just hate them, just don’t want them to vote. The nonvote rises by over 1,000 percent for Natives who vote on DREs versus votes spoiled on paper ballots. > [@](#): > > Now, you’re probably expecting me to tear off into a screed about how easy it is to fiddle with a computerized voting machine (it is), how there’s rarely a “paper trail” to verify your vote (there isn’t one), how the software can be hacked, cracked, hijacked, and name Donald Duck to Congress or Chuck Hagel to the US Senate. (Republican Senator Hagel, who founded the biggest voting machine company, ES&S, was elected with an astonishing number of African American votes, his skeptical Democratic opponent told me, right after his machines were installed. Obviously, a sore loser. Or sore winner. We’ll never know which.) ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/3 "2012-10-19T19:45:52Z")
It was very simple to rig Ohio for Dubya in 2004 by not giving Democratic leaning precincts enough voting machines. Lines over eight hours long developed in some. And that day, it was raining. (Happened to my daughter’s best friend trying to vote at Oberlin.) The Diebold thing has been mentioned in the past. I doubt if it’s been completely debunked (difficult to prove a negative), but it also has never been proven true. If the GOP ever actually gets caught at it, there’d be hell to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/4 "2012-10-19T20:13:49Z")
All we know for sure about the Diebold machines in Ohio in 2004 is that someone in a position to rig them said that he would do everything possible to deliver votes to Bush. We do not know if he was actually telling the truth. However, just the fact that the situation is such that we can’t know is a huge problem, regardless of whether cheating occurred or not. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/5 "2012-10-19T20:18:13Z")
I don’t understand why people put up with them. I wish the entire country would go the way of Oregon and Washington and just do all mail-in voting. Voting on an electric machine is about as useless as just thinking your vote. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/6 "2012-10-20T20:55:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All we know for sure about the Diebold machines in Ohio in 2004 is that someone in a position to rig them said that he would do everything possible to deliver votes to Bush. We do not know if he was actually telling the truth. However, just the fact that the situation is such that we can’t know is a huge problem, regardless of whether cheating occurred or not. > **[Tagg Romney's Hart Intercivic. No conflicts of interest here, right? -...](https://www.democraticunderground.com/10021587659)** Ohio’s voting machines are from a company called HART Intercivic and that company is owned by Tagg Romney?? Really?? > **[Hart InterCivic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_InterCivic)** > > Hart InterCivic Inc. is a privately held United States company that provides election technologies and services to government jurisdictions. Headquartered in Austin, Texas, Hart products are used by hundreds of jurisdictions nationwide, including counties in Texas, the entire states of Hawaii and Oklahoma, half of Washington and Colorado, and certain counties in Michigan, Ohio, California, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. > Hart entered the el... Wiki doesn’t mention that. Neither does the company website: [http://www.hartic.com/](http://www.hartic.com/) Oops, DailyKos: > **[New owners of voting machine company Hart-Intercivic have close Romney ties](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/16/1145225/-New-owners-of-voting-machine-company-Hart-Intercivic-have-close-Romney-ties)** > > OK, right off the bat, I have done a LOT of work on e-voting activism over the years starting with the Diebold fiasco starting back in 2002. For those who wish to bother and check my bona fides , I ... > [@](#): > > Private equity firm H.I.G. Capital, LLC bought out a “significant” portion of Hart in July of 2011, and now the majority of Hart’s board directors are employees of H.I.G. (It’s not entirely clear how much of the voting machine company H.I.G. owns, but the financial advisors responsible for the transaction state that “Hart Intercivic was acquired by HIG Capital.”) > > - H.I.G. was founded by Tony Tamer, a former Bain employee and bundler for Mitt Romney’s campaign. > > - Of H.I.G.’s 22 American directors, 21 donated to Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign. One person made no political donations at all; one person donated to both Mitt Romney and Barack Obama; the remaining 20 directors donated exclusively to Mitt Romney in 2012. (See below for links to donations.) Further reading indicated it was two counties in Ohio - only. ---
**Author:** ![Catballou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Catballou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catballou)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-conspiracy-theory-this-time-liberal-voting-machines/638244/7 "2012-10-21T16:04:21Z")
This article from Forbes came out on Romney Family Investment Tied to Voting Machines. It is hard for me not to raise my eyebrows. [Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election Causing Concern](http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/10/20/romney-family-investment-ties-to-voting-machine-company-that-could-decide-the-election-causes-concern/) …