# Another contender for moron of the year... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360 "2003-08-11T12:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/1 "2003-08-11T12:44:14Z")
Like a lot of other people, i’m pretty sick of some of the stupid “security” measures that have been taken in some places over the last year or so. Many of these so-called precautions serve simply to incinvenience people while providing little or no increase in real security. But it’s morons like [this](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/11/1060454123492.html) who continue to ensure that draconian security measures will be around for some time to come: > [@](#): > > An Air France pilot could face seven years behind bars after allegedly telling a security screener he had a bomb in his shoe. > > No explosives were found on the pilot or the plane, but the New York-to-Paris flight he was scheduled for as a co-pilot was cancelled. > > \ > > “It’s not very often that you find a co-pilot making such inappropriate comments,” Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman Lauren Stover told The New York Times. “We have zero tolerance for those kinds of comments.” > > Jim Faulkner, an Air France spokesman, apologised for the inconvenience to passengers. Jeses H. Chirst. This guy’s a pilot, ferchrissakes! What the fuck was he thinking? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/2 "2003-08-11T12:51:59Z")
If he still has his job I’d be pretty surprised. What a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/3 "2003-08-11T12:53:21Z")
Maybe he just butchered his attempt at ‘hip hop’ slang? “Zees shoes, zay are zee bomb, forizzle mah bizzle” Just a thought… ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/4 "2003-08-11T12:55:57Z")
Obviously, monsieur Rivere is a grade A moron. But c’mon. Check him for explosives, then if he’s not carrying any, he was obviously making a joke. A very bad one, and I could certainly understand there being a stiff fine for it. But cancelling an entire flight because of something that’s obviously a joke? A possible seven year prison sentence? I know you don’t want to give off a signal that this is somehow something you can get away with, but still, isn’t this all kinda harsh? I could see not allowing him to fly, but only if Air France had a “spare” pilot on the ground at JFK. Now, you’re just causing inconvenience for hundreds of passengers. ---
**Author:** ![roadrunner70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@roadrunner70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roadrunner70)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/5 "2003-08-11T12:56:40Z")
'E iz, 'ow you say, ze moron. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/6 "2003-08-11T13:04:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Obviously, monsieur Rivere is a grade A moron. > > But c’mon. Check him for explosives, then if he’s not carrying any, he was obviously making a joke. A very bad one, and I could certainly understand there being a stiff fine for it. But cancelling an entire flight because of something that’s obviously a joke? A possible seven year prison sentence? I know you don’t want to give off a signal that this is somehow something you can get away with, but still, isn’t this all kinda harsh? > > I could see not allowing him to fly, but only if Air France had a “spare” pilot on the ground at JFK. Now, you’re just causing inconvenience for hundreds of passengers. \*\* I tend to agree with you about this, both in terms of the potential punishment, and the cancelling of the flight. I was commenting only on the fact that he thought it was OK to make the statement in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/7 "2003-08-11T13:13:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Obviously, monsieur Rivere is a grade A moron. > > But c’mon. Check him for explosives, then if he’s not carrying any, he was obviously making a joke. A very bad one, and I could certainly understand there being a stiff fine for it. But cancelling an entire flight because of something that’s obviously a joke? A possible seven year prison sentence? I know you don’t want to give off a signal that this is somehow something you can get away with, but still, isn’t this all kinda harsh? > > I could see not allowing him to fly, but only if Air France had a “spare” pilot on the ground at JFK. Now, you’re just causing inconvenience for hundreds of passengers. \*\* But could you imagine what would have happened had the flight NOT been cancelled? Yeesh! Do you REALLY think that all of those passengers or crew would have voluntarily boarded that flight given what happened? And I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that made the decision to give the thumbs-up to let that plane fly. France is still reeling over it’s non-support of the conflict in Iraq. And to top it off that someone, just because he’s a pilot, can get away with something like that. Yeah, they’re inconvenienced. Sorry 'bout that. It’s the nature of air-travel these days. Did Air France make the right decision to cancel the flight? I sure think so. Not because I think that there might actually have been a bomb in the co-pilot’s shoes. But because of the unbelievably bad press they would have gotten had they NOT done it. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/8 "2003-08-11T13:13:30Z")
That’s it. Brutus and roadrunner owe me a new cup of coffee! ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/9 "2003-08-11T14:48:31Z")
**mhendo** , I wasn’t ragging on you, if you got that impression. I fully agree this co-pilot was a complete jackass, and that he shouldn’t get away with this. Having said that, I sure don’t think a 7 year jail sentence is an appropriate punishment for _this_. The guy made a horribly ill-timed joke that wasn’t even funny to begin with. That’s it, as far as I’m concerned. As for Air France cancelling the flight, I don’t know. The fact that this co-pilot is a moron with no sense of humour (well, not a good one, at any rate) doesn’t say anything about his flying skills. If I had been a passenger waiting to board, I would have prefered to be able to fly rather than to wait for the next flight, even if the co-pilot was an asshole. After all, he didn’t pose a danger to air safety or anything: he merely posed a danger to humour as a concept. What should have happened: the asshole co-pilot is charged for his incredibly poor joke, but if there’s no one to take his seat in the cockpit, he’s allowed to carry out his flight to Paris so as to minimize inconvenience for the passengers (I’m pretty sure Air France must have cancelled the flight because their co-pilot was taken into custody anyway, they would have let it depart had the guy been released in time - in fact, it doesn’t even say the decision to cancel the flight was AF’s to begin with). Upon arrival in Paris, Air France either fires the guy or severely reprimands him. Then, he travels back to the US, and receives his sentence as appropriate. How France’s position in the Iraq matter enters in to this, I fail to see. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/10 "2003-08-11T14:54:56Z")
[More elaborate BBC article.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3138219.stm) Turns out he faces up to eleven years in jail. The flight wasn’t cancelled, but delayed one day as a co-pilot had to be flown in from Paris. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/11 "2003-08-11T20:31:36Z")
"A joke? Well, very funny monsieur Rivere. Bailiff, take him into custody. Ha ha ha. \ Next case… ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/12 "2003-08-11T21:31:47Z")
Actually, I think that keeping him out of the cockpit was a DAMN good idea. Several years ago, an Egyptian airliner flying out of JFK went down. Although I believe that the official report about was inconclusive because of the sensitivities of the Egyptians, it appears that one of the pilots suicidally crashed the plane into the ocean. Letting someone questionable fly a plane is just a really bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/13 "2003-08-11T23:46:24Z")
I dunno. I would sure be tempted to say that sarcastically, especially if the check was anything other than a quick baggage x-ray. I mean, he’s a pilot. And they’re searching him. What’s he gonna do? Take over the plane? :rolleyes: OTOH, I wouldn’t actually say it, 'cause security guys are psychos following rules written by paranoids. ---
**Author:** ![leftysergeant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@leftysergeant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftysergeant)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/14 "2003-08-12T07:44:03Z")
There are so many psychoitic creeps in any profession that it is entirely possible that this particualr creep had, indeed, goner totally postal and had planned on doing some violence to the aircraft and passengers. Obviously, he should never be allowed to fly again, even as a passenger, and should be mentally evaluated before he is allowed near anything more dangerous than a plastic spoon Better safe than sorry, and since the dumb bastard knew how seriously we take that sort of thing lately, he has no excuse and should suffer the consequences of his act. Max the fool out. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/15 "2003-08-12T07:51:53Z")
He was making a joke. A tasteless joke, yeah, but a joke. Should every tasteless joke land you with 11 years in prison? Just let someone else fly the plane, and maybe dock his next paycheck. Don’t take away his life. . > [@](#): > > But could you imagine what would have happened had the flight NOT been cancelled? Yeesh! Do you REALLY think that all of those passengers or crew would have voluntarily boarded that flight given what happened? I would. He made a dumb joke. He was searched, nothing was found. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/16 "2003-08-12T10:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GrizzRich \* > **Yeesh! Do you REALLY think that all of those passengers or crew would have voluntarily boarded that flight given what happened? And I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that made the decision to give the thumbs-up to let that plane fly. > France is still reeling over it’s non-support of the conflict in Iraq.** But nothing happened! And what on Earth _could_ have happened if the flight did take off without him? Or even if Rivere did fly? Occam’s Razor would suggest it was indeed just a joke. Not funny, horrendously ill-thought out and stupid but it is explicable as a joke even with those attributes. It’s **in** explicable that he was a potential, deliberate threat. Giving a warning like that brings his competency as a terrorist into question but more importantly, the only danger I could envision would be his incompetence as an aviator. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/17 "2003-08-12T10:26:46Z")
The problem with treating it as just a joke, I think is this: The Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome. Let’s say he says it’s a joke, the plane and his person are searched, and nothing is found. No problem, right? What if he jokes again, months later? Will people think, “Ah, he was joking before, so I’m sure he’s joking now as well”? Or will they move as swiftly that second time as they did the first? In other words, would they be more comfortable with his actions knowing he’d joked about it before - and that joke had led to nothing to worry about? Just a theory. Any resemblence to reality is coincidental, mind you … ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/18 "2003-08-12T11:06:37Z")
I have never heard of a terrorist joking about carrying an incendiary device or explosive of any kind. It’s the ones that DON’T that you have to watch for. Most people that joke about things like this aren’t guilty of anything but stupidity. I’m sure the hijackers of 9/11 didn’t get on the plane saying “hey Omar hows about we hijack this plane and crash it into the World Trade Center!!” ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/19 "2003-08-12T11:26:31Z")
Well, that’s true, but it doesn’t preclude someone who’s serious from letting slip their intentions. Some of these terrorist types can be awfully arrogant and think their plans are foolproof, and then they go spouting off about it… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360/20 "2003-08-12T15:21:06Z")
The moron in question might’ve thought it was a joke, but the joke is on him. What he did is make a threat. That threat is that he might have a bomb. Since making such a threat itself is illegal, he’s facing punishment for that. I don’t have any pity for someone who certainly knows better than to have done that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-contender-for-moron-of-the-year/194360.md?page=2)