# Another copyright question: torn out pages **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721 "2009-03-25T09:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/1 "2009-03-25T09:17:34Z")
I have a book with the last 3 pages torn out. I know what the text is–I have a different edition–can I print up those pages, rebind the book, and sell it? Legally speaking, that is. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/2 "2009-03-25T12:41:36Z")
I doubt it would bother anyone if you did. Legally, though, I think you could claim that this was fair use. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/3 "2009-03-25T13:04:55Z")
When I was a teenager employed at the public library to mend books, I did this all the time, especially for children’s books. FWIW, since we didn’t sell them. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/4 "2009-03-25T13:13:55Z")
Don’t rebind the book - just tip in or hinge in the missing pages. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/5 "2009-03-25T16:30:11Z")
If you’re making it explicit that it’s a used book that’s been patched I agree with Chuck that it should fall under Fair use. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/6 "2009-03-25T21:59:59Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > Don’t rebind the book - just tip in or hinge in the missing pages. I’m a total bookbinding NewBee. Tip in means just set them in there loose, yes? “Hinge in” is what? ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/7 "2009-03-25T23:30:38Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > I’m a total bookbinding NewBee. Tip in means just set them in there loose, yes? “Hinge in” is what? “Tip in” means to very carefully apply glue to juuust the innermost edge of the page you’re adding, and place it such that the glue sticks as deeply as possible in between the other pages, so that it blends in. For long-lasting repair, you need to use the right kind of [glue](http://www.demco.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?PROCFUN+LWDCWEB20+LWDC225+PRD+ENG+FUNCPARMS+ZZWSESSID(A0200):63858262991228343846+ZZWNAVPAG(A0100):PRODUCT+ZZWBTRKID(A0120):BST0000+DATESEQ(A0140):32510919298) and be very precise in placing that edge. “Hinge in” meant, when I was doing these things, to do something similar using a specially designed hinge tape (like [this](http://www.demco.com/goto?BLK6145&LPCM82)) that’s extra-flexible and resilient. That is, you make a hinge of tape on one or both sides of the new page to attach it to the book. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/8 "2009-03-26T13:41:25Z")
Think more like an entrepreneur - sell the book as is, with a note at the end that says “If you’d like the last 3 pages, send a check or money order to…” ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/9 "2009-03-26T16:57:17Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > “Tip in” means to very carefully apply glue to juuust the innermost edge of the page you’re adding, and place it such that the glue sticks as deeply as possible in between the other pages, so that it blends in. For long-lasting repair, you need to use the right kind of [glue](http://www.demco.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?PROCFUN+LWDCWEB20+LWDC225+PRD+ENG+FUNCPARMS+ZZWSESSID(A0200):63858262991228343846+ZZWNAVPAG(A0100):PRODUCT+ZZWBTRKID(A0120):BST0000+DATESEQ(A0140):32510919298) and be very precise in placing that edge. > > “Hinge in” meant, when I was doing these things, to do something similar using a specially designed hinge tape (like [this](http://www.demco.com/goto?BLK6145&LPCM82)) that’s extra-flexible and resilient. That is, you make a hinge of tape on one or both sides of the new page to attach it to the book. You can also hinge-in by folding over the inner edge of the replacement page and applying glue to the folded part, as you would when tipping in. Hinging is only useful for small numbers of pages, because each hinge-in increases the width of the text block and puts stress on the binding. Tipping-in works best when you have either a stub of the original page to glue to OR a deep gutter, because the tipped-in page will reduce the gutter of the page it is glued to and the tipped-in page will not freely turn the way the orginal pages do. Gluing it to a stub makes it as freely turnable as original pages, but will put stress on the binding the same as hinges will. I will go looking for some online how-tos with illustrations. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/10 "2009-03-26T17:07:05Z")
An illustrated tip-in how-to from Yale (PDF): [http://www.library.yale.edu/preservation/tip%20ins.pdf](http://www.library.yale.edu/preservation/tip%20ins.pdf) and a better-illustrated (IMO) manual from the Alasaka State Library (also PDF) [http://www.library.state.ak.us/hist/hist\_docs/conman/conman5.pdf](http://www.library.state.ak.us/hist/hist_docs/conman/conman5.pdf) that covers both hinging-in and tipping-in. Most manuals will suggest using Japanese tissue for hinging, but **emmaliminal** ’s suggestion of hinge tape is a much better option for home repairs. Word to the wise - yes a mask is definitely needed or you’ll glue all the wrong stuff together (mask = a guard sheet that protects the pages you’re not gluing). Waxed paper makes a great mask. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/11 "2009-03-27T02:04:51Z")
Thank you Motorgirl for all the detail. Consider my ignorance fought. I’m still waiting for a semi-convincing pronouncement on the copyright issue. Is “fair use” a real defense against a copyright violation suit? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/12 "2009-03-27T02:16:01Z")
Fair Use is written into the Copyright Act of 1986, still the controlling legislation. Will it win in court? Nobody knows. So few Fair Use cases ever make it into the court system that no one, including most intellectual property attorneys, will make predictions about the outcome of cases. That also means that almost nobody ever files an actual copyright infringement case over Fair Use, although lawyers will often send out standard cease and desist forms to scare people off. If you’re actually worried somebody is going to sue you over a single book other than a fake first edition of Harry Potter, relax. It’s not going to happen. Unless you really are trying for a scam like that, in which case I hope you do get sued. Or you could pay real money and see a lawyer instead of asking questions over the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/13 "2009-03-27T02:20:45Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Think more like an entrepreneur - sell the book as is, with a note at the end that says “If you’d like the last 3 pages, send a check or money order to…” Hee. I know I was rather mightily annoyed when I bought a paperback of Niven’s Gil ‘The Arm’ short stories to read on a plane from one of the magazine shops at the airport… and the book was missing the last chunk of the last story. Gah. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/14 "2009-04-04T13:33:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > …If you’re actually worried somebody is going to sue you over a single book other than a fake first edition of Harry Potter, relax. It’s not going to happen. Unless you really are trying for a scam like that, in which case I hope you do get sued. Or you could pay real money and see a lawyer instead of asking questions over the Internet. I seem to have expressed myself badly. I’m not worried about a lawsuit. I want to behave within the bounds of the law. It’s a personal thing. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/15 "2009-04-04T18:08:22Z")
The problem is that copyright is a civil law – you aren’t prosecuted for copyright infringement, you’re sued. There are anti-piracy laws, but that shouldn’t apply here. Whether you’re in the bounds of copyright law of fair use can’t be decided until it goes to court and a judge rules (and his ruling survives any appeals). From what you describe, there should be a problem. No one is going to sue you over a few tipped-in pages; it’s a waste of their time. And I would expect that any ruling would let this come under fair use. But until it goes to court, there is no definitive answer. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/16 "2009-04-04T22:39:33Z")
I’m having a hard time understanding what about this scenario people think would qualify as fair use. That’s not some magic phrase that makes everything all right, the situation has to meet the criteria listed in the actual law. There are some room for ambiguity on certain points, sure, but I don’t see anything like “because I want to sell a copy of a book I couldn’t otherwise sell” in there. Anyone care to explain _why_ they think this should be considered fair use? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/17 "2009-04-05T00:20:10Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The problem is that copyright is a civil law – you aren’t prosecuted for copyright infringement, you’re sued. Copyright law in the U.S. is both civil and [criminal](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506). The same infringement can result in both a civil and criminal case. And I think you mean the Copyright Act of 1976. Not that this has anything to do with the O.P. As others have said, photocopying three missing pages from a book, and reselling the book, almost certainly falls within fair use. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/18 "2009-04-05T00:23:52Z")
Factors to be considered when determining [fair use](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107). Why do I think this is fair use? Because the three leaves (six pages) that were removed were probably destroyed, and if not destroyed, are probably worthless by themselves — they will not re-enter the commercial stream. The three photocopied leaves form only a small portion of a larger work, and the resale of the book probably does not hinge on the inclusion of those three leaves, since the buyer is unlikely to notice their absence at the time of purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/19 "2009-04-05T01:05:41Z")
It’s important to recognize that when courts look at the issue they weigh all four section 107 factors. Merely being a commercial use is not enough to disqualify. And those four factors are so vague that they hardly amount to any guidance at all. You have to look more at practice and experience and the few cases that make it into the court systems. The court cases tend to be almost the worst guidance since only the few weirdest cases ever make it to a court decision. I agree with Walloon that the amount of the copying is so small that it does not constitute an infringement. You could argue that without the pages, the book is valueless and so would force the buyer to purchase an original, but that’s probably not a Fair Use counterargument. Since there already is a used book market that legalizes a whole copy completing a copy to make it whole does not affect the original in any real way. (I’d be interested to know if the First Sale doctrine - the right of being able to resell any product you purchase legally - comes into play. The buyer may have an expectation of purchasing a whole work.) You could also make the argument that libraries have long been allowed to replace torn out pages with facsimiles, although that is a non-commercial use. Mostly, though, common sense rules outside of court. You can’t copy an entire book and put it up for sale. That’s too much of an “amount and substantiality.” How much can you copy? There is no numerical rule. A tiny amount is Fair Use, though. Common sense says that this is OK. If you went to court almost anything could happen, because it would hinge on the specific facts of the case in excruciatingly more detail than have been set out here. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721/20 "2009-04-05T01:29:29Z")
You’re allowed to do whatever you want (basically) with a book once you’ve bought it. Doctrine of “first sale” and all. The potential problem comes from the fact you’re copying the last three pages. I agree with **Walloon** and **Exapno Mapcase** that your best argument would basically be pointing out that the book is useless without those three pages. You’re not the typical violator the Copyright Act envisions (i.e., buying one copy, copying all the text, and then selling multiple new versions), you’re just repairing the broken copy you already have. You’re putting yourself in the same situation had the book not been broken in the first place (and the idea of copyright doesn’t really fathom using protection to sell multiple copies to the same person because the books are disposable items to be replaced). And again echoing **Exapno** , it’s hard to really give you any better answer than that. Fair Use doctrine is incredibly vague, and at the end of the day, usually comes down to how the judge feels. Common sense would seem to dictate that you’d be okay, even in the event someone would come after you (they wouldn’t). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-copyright-question-torn-out-pages/490721.md?page=2)