# Another Critical Race Theory thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389 "2021-05-04T19:44:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/425 "2021-05-19T17:47:38Z")
Sure, this theory is foremost about race, just like gender studies (for example) is foremost about gender. But CRT explicitly accepts that gender, class, and other characteristics intersect and interlink with race and each other in complex ways, usually to the detriment of people of color, women, the poor, etc. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/426 "2021-05-19T17:51:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > CRT explicitly accepts that gender, class, and other characteristics intersect and interlink with race and each other in complex ways, usually to the detriment of people of color, women, the poor, etc. Definitely. And has right from the get-go. @Dangerosa, look at that Mari Matsuda paper I linked to earlier, _Looking to the Bottom_, and see how it explicitly references feminism and feminists. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/427 "2021-05-19T17:53:15Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > By definition, if you are calling it Critical RACE theory, you are centering Race - not gender or class or geography or anything else. The 1980s feminist in me is going to call you out on that. And the 1980s feminist in me also knows how fast gender issues get thrown under the bus so we can talk about something “more important.” Which is interesting, because a common complaint I hear about second wave feminism from people of color was the extent to which it ignored issues where racism and sexism intersected, because those issues didn’t affect the (primarily white) women who were in charge of the movement, and often directly discomfited them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/428 "2021-05-19T17:59:24Z")
That critique is in fact where the very term “intersectionality” comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/429 "2021-05-19T18:01:58Z")
And it is a common problem. Intersectionality is a huge issue. Which is why we shouldn’t center RACE. We should use a different term. Because women are regularly thrown under the bus by men, black people thrown under the bus by women, lesbians by gay men, Jews by whomever isn’t Jewish - and of course no one likes Muslims or atheists. And talk is cheap. Time after time, we talk about inclusivity in these issues, and then suddenly its “we can’t get women and black men the vote, we will just do it for black men - you women (of all colors) can wait another forty years.” Or “hey, lesbians and transwomen were really vital in Stonewall, but you can go get us men coffee now, we really don’t know how to deal with you or your issues, as men ours are more important.” Or “the workers revolution is important to both men and women, but hey, we aren’t getting enough, so lets make rape legal.” So, yeah, I hear you guys on the whole “we talk a good game.” But you know, fool me once…and we’ve been being fooled for a few thousand years at this point in time. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/430 "2021-05-19T18:05:31Z")
Where is it _the people who do CRT_ who are doing those things? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/431 "2021-05-19T18:07:00Z")
Take a look at the 1619 project. It isn’t exactly centering anything other than race - and specifically African Americans who arrived via slavery (and its fundamentally BAD History, journalist untrained in History shouldn’t write it). You could as easily do a 1492 project and center the decimation of Native American populations and culture - but there isn’t really room for that if you start at 1619. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/432 "2021-05-19T18:07:36Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Intersectionality is a huge issue. Which is why we shouldn’t center RACE. This is really weird. Critical race theory centers race in the same way that feminism centers gender. If there is a _person_ who is making sexist claims, call them out, absolutely. But any theory that doesn’t have a focus at all won’t have a focus. Critical race theory is a facet of intersectionality, not an alternative. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/433 "2021-05-19T18:09:28Z")
Isn’t it okay to center race on a theory that’s about race? Yes, race is central to CRT… I’m not sure how a theory about race and racism wouldn’t center on race. CRT is not the end-all be-all to justice for all people – it’s just a piece. Feminism is another piece. I don’t see a conflict between CRT and feminism. Which isn’t to say that it’s not possible for some CRT advocates to “throw women under the bus” – that’s definitely a bad thing and I oppose this if and when it occurs. But I see nothing in the tenets of CRT that dispute or hold back the tenets and goals of feminism (or vice versa, for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/434 "2021-05-19T18:10:00Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Take a look at the 1619 project. It isn’t exactly centering anything other than race - and specifically African Americans who arrived via slavery (and its fundamentally BAD History, journalist untrained in History shouldn’t write it). You could as easily do a 1492 project and center the dissemination of Native American populations and culture - but there isn’t really room for that if you start at 1619. What on earth? It also centers North America–does that make it anti-Asia? Works need focus, and a single work’s focus on a specific area is a necessary part of nonfiction. This is such an odd complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/435 "2021-05-19T18:11:19Z")
I was asked for an example. That’s an example of the problem when you use CRT. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/436 "2021-05-19T18:11:44Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Take a look at the 1619 project. It isn’t exactly centering anything other than race - and specifically African Americans who arrived via slavery (and its fundamentally BAD History, journalist untrained in History shouldn’t write it). You could as easily do a 1492 project and center the decimation of Native American populations and culture - but there isn’t really room for that if you start at 1619. 🤔 > **[1619 Project Reading List: Black Women's Activism - Illinois Press Blog](https://www.press.uillinois.edu/wordpress/1619-project-reading-list-black-womens-activism/)** > > This August marked the 400th anniversary of slaves arriving in America. To commemorate the anniversary, The New York Times Magazine launched the 1619 Project, a major initiative led by Nikole \[...\]Read More > The initiative has included a special issue of the magazine, podcasts, special events, a curriculum designed by the Pulitzer Center and more. Inspired by the 1619 Project, we’ve put together five lists of our publications related to the project on Black women’s activism, popular music, mass incarceration and lynching, sports and racism, and slavery, racism, and politics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/437 "2021-05-19T18:11:59Z")
What’s the problem? That a study of American history and slavery would focus on American history and slavery? Should the 1619 project not have focused on slavery in American history? I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/438 "2021-05-19T18:12:16Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I was asked for an example. That’s an example of the problem when you use CRT. It’s not a problem that the 1619 problem focuses on the harm done to Black women and men because of the construction of race, though. Any more than it’s a problem that a feminist text focuses on the harm done to Black and White women because of patriarchy. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/439 "2021-05-19T18:14:29Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I was asked for an example. That’s an example of the problem when you use CRT. You did then miss the links I made already in the thread showing CRT researchers looking at China’s bad treatment of the Uighurs, The ethnic conflicts of the Tutsi and the Hutu in Rwanda and a Jewish researcher pointing out how she uses it too. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/440 "2021-05-19T18:15:50Z")
Good for them. But academia is HUGE. Lets just call it something different so we don’t center race. I have zero problem with making sure that the views of others get included. I have a HUGE problem with calling it critical race theory. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/441 "2021-05-19T18:17:23Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And it is a common problem. Intersectionality is a huge issue. Which is why we shouldn’t center RACE. We should use a different term. I’m sorry, what term other than “race” should we use when discussing racism? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/442 "2021-05-19T18:19:04Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Good for them. But academia is HUGE. Lets just call it something different so we don’t center race. I have zero problem with making sure that the views of others get included. I have a HUGE problem with calling it critical race theory. Seems to be mostly yours, others can manage and continue to apply the framework in women’s studies too. Of course, the focus then is about women of color. Who are also discriminated a lot. [https://uichr.uiowa.edu/assets/Documents/CRF.sage-encyclopedia-of-higher-education2020.pdf](https://uichr.uiowa.edu/assets/Documents/CRF.sage-encyclopedia-of-higher-education2020.pdf) [http://jces.ua.edu/critical-race-feminism-a-transformative-vision-for-service-learning-engagement/](http://jces.ua.edu/critical-race-feminism-a-transformative-vision-for-service-learning-engagement/) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/443 "2021-05-19T18:23:23Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Take a look at the 1619 project. It isn’t exactly centering anything other than race I meant where is it throwing anyone else “under the bus”? “Not being centered on” is not the same thing, especially for a dedicated project. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389/444 "2021-05-19T18:27:08Z")
What should we call a theory that is mainly about race and racism? Or do you think it’s always wrong for any theory to ever be mainly about race and racism? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-critical-race-theory-thread/941389.md?page=23)