# Another deadly shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488 "2014-06-10T18:04:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/41 "2014-06-10T20:14:40Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Kid shot somebody then killed himself. Big fucking mass shooting! _But we’ve got to do something because our kinds are our future!_ You’re right. Only one kid (or is that kind?) was murdered. Damn libruhl media, always making an issue out of a normal, everyday occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/42 "2014-06-10T20:15:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, my feeling is I’m tired of knee jerk reactions from either the left or right when tragedies happen. Your knee jerk reaction here, and the knee jerk reaction to have to defend the ‘2nd Amendment!!’ (why the quotes btw?). The quotes are because he wasn’t talking _about_ the 2nd Amendment, but imagining people yelling the actual words. Direct speech and all that. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/43 "2014-06-10T20:19:04Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Because gun ownership is common in the US, and ownership of a gun increases the chance of suicide. And contrary to pro-gun rhetoric, people suicidally inclined who don’t have a gun usually don’t just choose another method. [/QUOTE] [Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate) is a Wiki on rates of suicide per 100k…like I said, the US is in the middle of the pack. Pretty close to the UK: > [@](#): > > 33 United States[26] (more info) 19.2 5.5 12.0 2009 > > 36 United Kingdom (more info) 18.2 5.1 11.8 2011[27] This despite a vast disparity in gun access. And no where near Japan (which has extremely tight restrictions on gun access for the general public): > [@](#): > > 10 Japan (more info)[12] 21.7 2012 Or China: > [@](#): > > 6 China China[7] (more info) 13 14.8 22.23 2011 The point being that access to guns (or the converse) doesn’t seem to really affect suicide rates, so something else is in play wrt national rates. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/44 "2014-06-10T20:28:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, my feeling is I’m tired of knee jerk reactions from either the left or right when tragedies happen. Your knee jerk reaction here, and the knee jerk reaction to have to defend the ‘2nd Amendment!!’ (why the quotes btw?). > > I’m tired of both sides trotting out their version of ‘think of the children!’ on their hot button issues, and tired of the fact that people suck at understanding probability or risk assessment. My “knee jerk reaction”? Are you some kind of looney, yourself? I was simply stating that I’m tired of the shootings in this country. If you don’t share that concern then as far as I’m concerned there is something wrong with you. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/45 "2014-06-10T20:29:55Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > You know what I am sick and tired of? People like **racepug** referring to any shooting as a “mass shooting!” > > This is what happened in Oregon this morning. > > Murder and suicide. Mass shooting is just another media inspired catch phrase. CNN was helpfully fueling the flames by noting that a “semi-automatic weapon” was used. I see that the latest version on CNN has removed that phrase. A phrase designed for the uninformed person. Yeah, it was a pistol, probably a semi-auto pistol but still, all the scary catch phrases get pumped into the story. > Kid shot somebody then killed himself. Big fucking mass shooting! _But we’ve got to do something because our kinds are our future!_ Oh, so for people like you it only matters if Y amount of people get killed with a gun during any event, not X. Gotchya. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/46 "2014-06-10T20:32:33Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Kid shot somebody then killed himself. Big fucking mass shooting! _But we’ve got to do something because our kinds are our future!_ Actually the FBI defines it as active shooter/mass casualty: > [@](#): > > An active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area, and recent active shooter incidents have underscored the need for a coordinated response by law enforcement and others to save lives. [http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cirg/active-shooter-and-mass-casualty-incidents](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cirg/active-shooter-and-mass-casualty-incidents) So while there was one shooter and one innocent killed today, not counting those injured, it’s not about simple numbers as you seem to imply. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/47 "2014-06-10T20:35:08Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > My “knee jerk reaction”? Are you some kind of looney, yourself? I was simply stating that I’m tired of the shootings in this country. If you don’t share that concern then as far as I’m concerned there is something wrong with you. No, you are jerking your knee, both in your OP and here with your ‘concern’. Aren’t you tired of all the pool deaths in the country? What about all the deaths due to alcohol? Deaths due to falling off ladders? Deaths due to driving cars? There is something like 1 death in the US every 14 seconds. These (2) deaths were a tragedy, no doubt about it. But so were the 4 or 5 people who died while you and I exchanged this correspondence. Your use of this tragedy to push your political agenda is what tires me…it just never, ever stops. But you can feel good, since you have the majority of this board on your side I guess. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/48 "2014-06-10T20:39:40Z")
> [@XT](#): > > No, you are jerking your knee, both in your OP and here with your ‘concern’. Aren’t you tired of all the pool deaths in the country? What about all the deaths due to alcohol? Deaths due to falling off ladders? Deaths due to driving cars? There is something like 1 death in the US every 14 seconds. > > These (2) deaths were a tragedy, no doubt about it. But so were the 4 or 5 people who died while you and I exchanged this correspondence. Your use of this tragedy to push your political agenda is what tires me…it just never, ever stops. But you can feel good, since you have the majority of this board on your side I guess. No, I can’t “feel good” about it since there are still people like YOU around who apparently have no problems with gun ownership laws in this country despite all the killings. I’d feel sorry for you but in reality me attempting to interact in any way with the likes of you is simply a waste of my (and every other sane person’s) time. In all honesty, “people” like you (and I use the term loosely in your case) make me sick. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/49 "2014-06-10T20:41:17Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > No, I can’t “feel good” about it since there are still people like YOU around who apparently have no problems with gun ownership laws in this country despite all the killings. I’d feel sorry for you but in reality me attempting to interact in any way with the likes of you is simply a waste of my (and every other sane person’s) time. In all honesty, “people” like you (and I use the term loosely in your case) make me sick. And I feel sorry for you, someone who doesn’t understand probability or risk assessment and jerks his knee when an attention grabbing headline pushes his button. You don’t make me sick, however, since you are simply a clueless fuck monkey. _shrug_ Not your fault, you are what you are. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/50 "2014-06-10T20:49:40Z")
> [@XT](#): > > No, you are jerking your knee, both in your OP and here with your ‘concern’. Aren’t you tired of all the pool deaths in the country? What about all the deaths due to alcohol? Deaths due to falling off ladders? Deaths due to driving cars? There is something like 1 death in the US every 14 seconds. There is a difference between a lone individual who dies a tragic death (accidentally or of their own volition) and an individual who kills another person, or two, or three, … sometimes deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/51 "2014-06-10T20:51:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > No, you are jerking your knee, both in your OP and here with your ‘concern’. Aren’t you tired of all the pool deaths in the country? What about all the deaths due to alcohol? Deaths due to falling off ladders? Deaths due to driving cars? There is something like 1 death in the US every 14 seconds. > > These (2) deaths were a tragedy, no doubt about it. But so were the 4 or 5 people who died while you and I exchanged this correspondence. **Your use of this tragedy to push your political agenda** is what tires me…it just never, ever stops. But you can feel good, since you have the majority of this board on your side I guess. I never once mentioned anything political in the OP, so whatever “political” message you took from it is just whatever you conjured up in your otherwise feeble mind. So what was this about ME being a “clueless f\*ck monkey”? (whatever that is - only an uneducated, biased, polarizing, ignorant slimeball such as yourself could possibly come up with anything like that) (What’s “XT” stand for in your case, “ **X** tra **T** hick”? Don’t answer that. I already know) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/52 "2014-06-10T20:55:23Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > Oh, so for people like you it only matters if Y amount of people get killed with a gun during any event, not X. Gotchya. Yes, exactly, glad you understand. A person killed another person and then themselves. Should not be international, or even national news. Local news of little interest outside the greater Portland area. But it will feed the 24 hour news cycle that feeds on and by doing so, encourages this sort of thing. And you, with your “mass shooting” hysterics are part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/53 "2014-06-10T20:57:23Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > I never once mentioned anything political in the OP, so whatever “political” message you took from it is just whatever you conjured up in your otherwise feeble mind. So what was this about ME being a “clueless f\*ck monkey”? (whatever that is - only an uneducated, biased, polarizing, ignorant slimeball such as yourself could possibly come up with anything like that) Let’s review your OP, shall we? > [@](#): > > I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m getting quite sick and tired of hearing about mass killings being done in this country and even MORE sick and tired of hearing “2nd Amendment!!” hollered out any time anybody with a sane, working brain suggests that measures be taken to try to avoid the killings. It’s really quite sad when in the 21st century there are still plenty of people around who cling to an amendment that was written in the 18th century as a reason to allow the purchase possession of firearms with almost no restrictions whatsoever. It’s sickening and is a very sad state of affairs. You aren’t ranting about the tragedy of the killing…you are already in jerking knee mode over the right wingers you expected to be jerking THEIR knee because of stupid shit like your OP. It’s a recursive (or circle jerkage) of jerking knees. And when I pointed this out, you automatically assumed I was a gun nut (or whatever), when actually I don’t have issues with gun control, per se, and don’t own any guns of my own regardless. So, I’d say ‘clueless fuck monkey’ is a good descriptor of you and your jerking knee. Perhaps I’m being unfair, but I only have your jerking knee as a reference point in this thread, since I’ve never seen you post before. Maybe you are a nice guy, maybe on other subjects you are rational…couldn’t tell from what I’ve seen so far, but who knows? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/54 "2014-06-10T20:58:32Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > There is a difference between a lone individual who dies a tragic death (accidentally or of their own volition) and an individual who kills another person, or two, or three, … sometimes deliberately. Probably not to those who lose loved ones there isn’t, but ok. There is something chilling about someone who sets out to deliberately kill people, especially groups of people, and something definitely wrong with people who do that. And, no doubt, guns facility the ability to do that much easier than with a knife or something else. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/55 "2014-06-10T23:00:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Homicides (any method) > ChartIn the United States, annual homicides by any means total > > […] > 2002: 17,638 > 2001: 20,308 > 2000: 16,765 > […] Took me a moment to figure out that anomalous spike in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/56 "2014-06-10T23:05:48Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Let’s review your OP, shall we? > > You aren’t ranting about the tragedy of the killing…you are already in jerking knee mode over the right wingers you expected to be jerking THEIR knee because of stupid shit like your OP. It’s a recursive (or circle jerkage) of jerking knees. And when I pointed this out, you automatically assumed I was a gun nut (or whatever), when actually I don’t have issues with gun control, per se, and don’t own any guns of my own regardless. > > So, I’d say ‘clueless fuck monkey’ is a good descriptor of you and your jerking knee. Perhaps I’m being unfair, but I only have your jerking knee as a reference point in this thread, since I’ve never seen you post before. Maybe you are a nice guy, maybe on other subjects you are rational…couldn’t tell from what I’ve seen so far, but who knows? So, in review, my OP bothers you more than some kid going nuts with a weapon and shooting some other people. Makes total sense. Glad to know that we have rational people like you living in this otherwise fine country of ours. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/57 "2014-06-10T23:08:55Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Yes, exactly, glad you understand. > > A person killed another person and then themselves. > > Should not be international, or even national news. Local news of little interest outside the greater Portland area. But it will feed the 24 hour news cycle that feeds on and by doing so, encourages this sort of thing. > > And you, with your “mass shooting” hysterics are part of the problem. You’re no different from that other degenerate. Another shooting in this country - only the latest in a long line of them - and for people like you it’s just “business as usual.” I post something here expressing my frustration that this sort of thing is happening and I’m “part of the problem.” People like you and that other person are the REAL problem: irrational morons who think they have the answers to everything. It’s just such a shame that “people” (and, again, I use the term VERY loosely) like you even have to exist. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/58 "2014-06-11T01:08:26Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > So, in review, my OP bothers you more than some kid going nuts with a weapon and shooting some other people. Makes total sense. Glad to know that we have rational people like you living in this otherwise fine country of ours. So, in addition to your general fuck monkey tendencies you also have reading comprehension and retention issues as well. The eagle eyed observer, with the keen ability to scroll up will, of course, be able to see that it’s your strawman about what did or didn’t bother me more, and all I actually said was that I was tired of the jerking of knees. Hopefully you aren’t representative of the next generation to run this ‘fine country’, since you are, well, a knee jerking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/59 "2014-06-11T03:47:36Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Yes, exactly, glad you understand. > > A person killed another person and then themselves. > > Should not be international, or even national news. Local news of little interest outside the greater Portland area. But it will feed the 24 hour news cycle that feeds on and by doing so, encourages this sort of thing. > > And you, with your “mass shooting” hysterics are part of the problem. You’re a sad motherfucker if you think students going to school and shooting the place up merit no more than a mention on local news. You also seem to think that because only one victim died it doesn’t qualify as a mass shooting, despite the fact that the victim wasn’t the only one who was shot. Mass murder? No. But mass shooting? Seems to be accurate. In any case, have fun jacking off into your rifle tonight. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488/60 "2014-06-11T04:51:04Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not quite. To show this, you’d have to isolate unintentional firearm related death. Homicide and suicide would need to be omitted to get information on the safety of the gun itself. Wrong. For instance, limits on magazine capacity make guns less dangerous - for mass homicides. Any device that rendered a gun inoperable by anyone besides the owner would make the gun less dangerous - for homicides, accidents, and suicides alike. I gather that there are ways of reducing or increasing the time between shots for a semiautomatic weapon, the latter of which would make it less dangerous - for homicides and multiple homicides. Maybe even some accidents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-deadly-shooting/690488.md?page=4)