# Another elephant question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294 "2007-04-01T13:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![solkoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/1 "2007-04-01T13:57:23Z")
I’ve heard that a elephant with a restraint (chain) around its leg will not move even if the other end of the chain is not secure. Is there any truth to this? ---
**Author:** ![Barrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Barrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrington)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/2 "2007-04-01T19:44:13Z")
Only if they’ve been conditioned to do so by being tethered for a long time - I’m not sure if even that’s true, but I’ve heard it told. From [here](http://www.agd.org/library/articles/?ArtID=355) - maybe it’s stories like this that you’ve heard: > [@](#): > > Jameson travels every few years to South Africa to lecture and, during her first visit, she was approached by a young dentist who gave her an analogy that sticks with her to this day. The young dentist talked about how, in the past, the country used elephants as beasts of burden and they were trained to remain in place by having a shackle placed on one leg, which was then chained to a big tree. Neither the shackle, nor the tree, was going anywhere. After a period of time, the trainers would remove the chain from the tree, but leave the shackle on the elephant’s foot. The elephant, technically free to roam about, stayed in place, having been conditioned to do so. However, it’s common (at least with Asian elephants, not sure of African) to shackle the legs of a tame bull that’s in musth (heat) loosely together. This limits their movement for human safety reasons, but they can and do still move around. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/3 "2007-04-01T23:10:04Z")
A similar thing is done with horses. When they are young weanlings, they are trained by being tied in a stall using a very strong rope (but with a quick-release snap) and a strong nylon halter. They will start out pulling back, and try very hard at first to get loose. (Which is why you need to watch them carefully when first doing this.) But soon, they realize that they are not going to be able to break the rope and get loose, and give up on trying to pull loose. (They also realize that there is food in the manger, and that the older horse next to them is not pulling at all, but calmly eating from their manger.) Once a horse has been trained to tie, they will stand contentedly in a stall, even though they could easily break the normal tie rope, it if they pulled back. But they don’t, because as a youngster, they learned that pulling back when tied was not effective, so they don’t even try. (In fact, horses come to see their stalls as a ‘safe place’ for them – nothing bad happens there. Nobody makes them pull a wagon or carry someone on their back when there, they are inside out of the wind & cold, they sleep there, and periodically humans come by with hay & grain for them. That can cause a problem if a barn catches on fire. Horses panic, and try to run to their ‘safe place’ in their stall, even running back into the burning barn after they’ve been rescued and brought outside. Many stables will have a lead rope hanging on every single stall, so that in a fire, each horse can be led outside and tied to a fence to keep them outside.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/4 "2007-04-02T00:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Neither the shackle, nor the tree, was going anywhere. I don’t know about that… An elephant is both strong enough to uproot or otherwise wreck a tree, and smart enough to figure out that that would release the chain. I think it’s much more likely that the elephant just decided that being tamed wasn’t so bad, and consented to it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/5 "2007-04-02T00:23:14Z")
Elephants are trainable. Horses can be trained to stand if the reins are simply dropped on the ground. Maybe elephants can be trained to stand with just a chain around a leg. ---
**Author:** ![solkoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/6 "2007-04-02T02:18:18Z")
[QUOTE=Barrington] Only if they’ve been conditioned to do so by being tethered for a long time - I’m not sure if even that’s true, but I’ve heard it told. From [here](http://www.agd.org/library/articles/?ArtID=355) - maybe it’s stories like this that you’ve heard: However, it’s common (at least with Asian elephants, not sure of African) to shackle the legs of a tame bull that’s in musth (heat) loosely together. This limits their movement for human safety reasons, but they can and do still move around. [/QUOTE] Part of the story I heard was that there was fire and the elephant died because it didn’t think it could move. Sounds give of far fetched to me. ---
**Author:** ![Barrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Barrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrington)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/7 "2007-04-02T23:41:23Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] I don’t know about that… An elephant is both strong enough to uproot or otherwise wreck a tree, and smart enough to figure out that that would release the chain. I think it’s much more likely that the elephant just decided that being tamed wasn’t so bad, and consented to it. [/QUOTE] No offence, but on the basis of what evidence do you think that an elephant could uproot a decent-sized tree using a shackle bound to one of its feet? It seems very unlikely to me. ---
**Author:** ![titorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@titorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/titorian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/8 "2007-04-03T00:01:07Z")
I know you can subdue a house cat by wrapping its waist with a loose bit of yarn. Maybe an elephant would do the same. Perhaps with rope instead. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/9 "2007-04-03T07:13:53Z")
> [@](#): > > No offence, but on the basis of what evidence do you think that an elephant could uproot a decent-sized tree using a shackle bound to one of its feet? I never said it could do it _using the shackle_. I meant the elephant could turn around, and proceed to wreck the tree using its tusks and trunk. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/10 "2007-04-03T09:45:17Z")
Can’t say I’ve ever heard of elephants being used as beasts of burden here. There are some used as riding animals (elephant howda safaris) but I’ve never heard of an African elephant being used to e.g. carry logs, like Asian elephants do. I’d love a cite that didn’t sound so much like a “mess with the tourist” story. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/11 "2007-04-03T12:27:18Z")
The version I heard was that the elephant was secured to a tree or a stake in the ground when it was still a calf and couldn’t break the chain. Much as in the previous example of horses, the elephant learned it couldn’t break the shackle and chain when it was young. The learned behaviour remained when it was adult, so the handler could chain it to trees it could easily uproot, and the elephant would not try. As this is purely anecdotal evidence (from an indian classmate some years ago) this may be innaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/12 "2007-04-23T05:00:17Z")
I only saw this thread today. I’ve never heard this myself but can’t say for certain that it’s not true. I assume you mean move on its own volition, as elephants are often led down the street by their mahouts with chain “bracelets” on their legs. This is a new one on me, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/13 "2007-04-23T18:13:55Z")
As far as I understand it, this kind of learned behavior isn’t unusual in higher animals. A family I once knew owned a Great Dane. From the time he was a puppy, he was kept in the front yard, which was enclosed by a fairly low chain link fence. After striving mightily to surmount this obstacle for months, the dog “learned” that the top of the fence was beyond his reach. About a year later, the dog had grown to the point where he could nearly step over the fence – yet he never tried it. He “knew” that he couldn’t get past the fence, and it apparently never occurred to him that he should challenge this fundamental truth of his upbringing. Why should elephants be immune to this? People certainly aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/14 "2007-04-23T19:11:19Z")
[QUOTE=Kizarvexius] Why should elephants be immune to this? People certainly aren’t. [/QUOTE] Well they seem to be a lot smarter than most people. ---
**Author:** ![solkoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/15 "2007-04-23T19:15:48Z")
When I originally posted this, I neglected to tell the second part of the story (myth) which is that the elephant would not run from the loose chain even if there was a fire. The elephant would burn to death being chained to nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/16 "2007-04-23T20:17:03Z")
> [@](#): > > About a year later, the dog had grown to the point where he could nearly step over the fence – yet he never tried it. He “knew” that he couldn’t get past the fence, and it apparently never occurred to him that he should challenge this fundamental truth of his upbringing. That’s almost certainly not ignorance. A well-raised dog will have no problem with the notion of acceptable boundaries, and is quite willing to respect them even if he knows he can get past them. In such a case, the fence just serves primarily as a reminder of where the boundary is. But if the dog’s master were to stand on the other side of the fence and say “come” (thereby giving the dog permission), he’d have no problem crossing it. Or at least, that’s been the case with most of the dogs I’ve known. It’s possible that that particular Great Dane just wasn’t very smart. But one needn’t conclude that. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/17 "2007-04-24T00:07:56Z")
[QUOTE=solkoe] When I originally posted this, I neglected to tell the second part of the story (myth) which is that the elephant would not run from the loose chain even if there was a fire. The elephant would burn to death being chained to nothing. [/QUOTE] I’d say that part is nonsense. The trained trigger for the elephant to stop is resistance on the end of the chain. (That’s why it is a chain – to allow the elephant to move around a bit near the tree, but not to wander off.) So the elephant stops when it hits the end of the chain – when there is a drag on it. If the chain is loose, there is no such ‘stop’ pressure, and the elephant would continue to move, and would move away from the heat of the fire. So it’s just a BS urban legend, that doesn’t make sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/18 "2007-04-24T04:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=solkoe] When I originally posted this, I neglected to tell the second part of the story (myth) which is that the elephant would not run from the loose chain even if there was a fire. The elephant would burn to death being chained to nothing. [/QUOTE] I don’t believe that at all. I’ve known of elephants that went amok and broke the chain from the tree or whatever they were chained to. If they were distressed, especially like in a fire, they’d skedaddle and pronto. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/19 "2007-04-25T02:20:21Z")
Say, there was a thread last weekend started by a girl who had just seen an elephant, but it seems to be gone now. What happened to that, does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-elephant-question/398294/20 "2007-04-25T05:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=titorian] I know you can subdue a house cat by wrapping its waist with a loose bit of yarn. [/QUOTE] [del]Cite? 😕 [/del] Nevermind, I’m an idiot.