# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/201 "2012-05-31T06:19:39Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > If you will go read the ruling you will see that the community does not hold your view. > > They fought to keep it exactly because it did “establish” them as a christian community. > > [http://scholar.google.com/scholar\_case?case=10811058226814137027&hl=en&as\_sdt=2&as\_vis=1&oi=scholarr](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10811058226814137027&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) This post deserves a bump. As noted, the link goes to the actual ruling in the case under discussion. Well worth a read for anyone interested in the issues raised by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/202 "2012-05-31T07:19:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I am a Christian… Whoah… slow down… I think we should get **GEEPERS** to confirm that first … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/203 "2012-05-31T09:39:37Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > This post deserves a bump. As noted, the link goes to the actual ruling in the case under discussion. Well worth a read for anyone interested in the issues raised by the OP. What I find interesting about that case is that, ultimately, the school board and community were hoist on their own petard. The plaintiff complained that “she experienced feelings of exclusion and ostracism” and the school and community responded by openly excluding and ostracizing her. The Lemon test requires that the government (the school in this case) “avoid excessive entanglement with religion.” And they responded thusly: > [@](#): > > The Cranston School Committee and its subcommittee held four open meetings to consider the fate of the Mural. At those meetings a significantly lopsided majority of the speakers spoke passionately, and in religious terms, in favor of retaining the Prayer Mural. Various speakers read from the bible, spoke about their personal religious convictions, threatened Plaintiff with damnation on Judgment Day and suggested that she will go to hell. > > The atmosphere was such that the Superintendent of Schools felt compelled to discuss his own religious beliefs at length when he made his recommendation to the Committee that they vote to retain the Prayer Mural. Similarly, five of the seven School Committee members expressed avowals of their own religious beliefs at the meeting, including two of those who voted against retaining the Mural. > > […] > > When focused on the Prayer Mural, the activities and agenda of the Cranston School Committee became excessively entangled with religion, exposing the Committee to a situation where a loud and passionate majority encouraged it to vote to override the constitutional rights of a minority. In short, they proved her case far better than she could ever have. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/204 "2012-05-31T09:44:35Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Possibly Newton, unless the pitcher is really, really, really good. Well, _ **I’ll** _ applaud this, even if no-one else will. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/205 "2012-05-31T09:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Various speakers read from the bible, spoke about their personal religious convictions, threatened Plaintiff with damnation on Judgment Day and suggested that she will go to hell. But… but they can’t have done that ! The mural doesn’t promote a specific religion ! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/206 "2012-05-31T09:48:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But… but they can’t have done that ! The mural doesn’t promote a specific religion ! It doesn’t count - they’re “not true Christians”. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/207 "2012-05-31T09:59:45Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Today it is a banner. Tomorrow, it will be a law prohiting a Christian to speak on spiritual matters if they happen to be standing on government property. The slippery slope has begun ,and eventually Christians will have to go back to the ancient days of hiding in secret in order to worship, a complete opposition to the original intent of the Establishment Clause. Wow, quoting directly from the Agenda. I never figured you to be a fellow subscriber to the Atheist Newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/208 "2012-05-31T10:07:17Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I am more concerned about a future godless generation with no moral compass. It’s no wonder that teen suicide rates have skyrocketed and bullying is become a major problem in schools. There is simply a lack of respect and compassion for one’s neighbor out there that is growing and growing. My moral compass is just fine, thanks. I don’t need a bible thumper telling me what’s right, and what’s wrong based on two thousand year old anonymous writings. I don’t need the threat of eternal damnation to be a decent human being. You do also know, of course, that teen suicide rates (ages 10-24) have been [declining](http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/suicide/statistics/trends02.html) over the last 20 years, and are significantly lower than the non-teen suicide rate. Maybe you’re thinking about the high suicide rate for [LGBT](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth) teens. Although, since they’re filthy sinning homosexuals, they probably don’t deserve the Christian Compassion™ that might make their lives a bit more tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/209 "2012-05-31T10:53:01Z")
I live in Rhode Island and am, in fact, acquainted with Jessica Alquist’s mother. I know that some of the facts in the case are not as they were represented but because of privacy issues, I will not go into them. I’ve argued this case back and forth on Facebook and elsewhere with people who come across as nothing more than functional idiots and pretty ignorant about the constitution and supreme court precedent. My conclusion? They prefer their ignorance and religious high-mindedness to what the law actually says. You’re not going to change their minds. The banner actually came down a couple of months ago. But a profound thing has happened since then. That is: no one’s right to worship as they please has been curtailed. No one has been arrested for preaching what they believe. No one has been arrested for praying in public. No one has been arrested for attending church as they wish. In point of fact, no one lost any rights _that they didn’t have in the first place_. Things have gone along pretty much as they always have here in Rhode Island with the banner down. Crime rates have stayed steady, church attendance hasn’t dropped off, and there hasn’t been the upsurge in immorality that the banner supporters would have expected once the banner came down. On the other hand, we are on the hook for 75 million dollars from Curt Schilling’s failed 38 Studios, so maybe God does hate us after all. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/210 "2012-05-31T10:59:40Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > I live in Rhode Island and am, in fact, acquainted with Jessica Alquist’s mother. if you happen to speak to them, please pass on to Jessica that “we” are behind her efforts and are impressed by what she has accomplished! (only word it more eloquently)🆒 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/211 "2012-05-31T11:03:04Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > At the very least, prayer relaxes and decreases anxiety. YMMV, but the thing that relaxes _me_ and makes _my_ anxiety lessened is forbidden by the Federales even when my state says it is ok. Are you a member of NORML? Ain’t seen you at the meetings.😕 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/212 "2012-05-31T11:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=GEEPERS] As for ancient ignorant people, the Jews have become perhaps the world’s most influencial race, defying the odds, surviving genocide and becoming a nation again. [/QUOTE] The Jews are special because they survived genocide? What about all the Jews who didn’t survive it? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/213 "2012-05-31T11:30:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The Jews are special because they survived genocide? What about all the Jews who didn’t survive it? They weren’t real Jews. _Duh_. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/214 "2012-05-31T11:38:37Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > As for ancient ignorant people, the Jews have become perhaps the world’s most influencial race, defying the odds, surviving genocide and becoming a nation again. Israel is the geo political center of the world just as the Bible predicted. Israel is also a major producer of food, oranges in particular, in what was once just sand dunes. Just as the Bible predicted. And the list goes on and on… Yes, I believe this people does have relevance to modern life. In spite of the fact that we own Wall Street and Hollywood and use the Black man as muscle in forwarding our Zionist agenda, I would hardly say Israel is the geopolitical center of the world. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/215 "2012-05-31T11:51:26Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In spite of the fact that we own Wall Street and Hollywood and use the Black man as muscle in forwarding our Zionist agenda, I would hardly say Israel is the geopolitical center of the world. We are talking about metaphorical Jews here, those who exist only to fulfill a Christian prophesy, and not actual members of the tribe. I suspect that many of the pro-Israel end time boosters would be sorely disappointed if they found that most Jews are practicably indistinguishable from “normal” folk in day-to-day life. Except for that whole “controllng the world’s financial makets” thing, of course. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/216 "2012-05-31T11:54:58Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > LOL prayer is a terrible tradition? Yes, let’s all subscribe to your godless way of thinking that offers zero hope for the hurting. Do tell, what does an atheist say to their sick friend dying of cancer? “sucks to be you, dude?” I tell him God is punishing him for something he did.😉 I think the point you are missing in all this is that you are certainly entitled to believe your beliefs. It’s that those of us who don’t share in them don’t want to be subjected to them. Much like the Cranston School Committee in **Gyrate** ’s post, your entire focus is convincing us on how strong your beliefs are. And the fact is those of us who are not Christian simply don’t care. We don’t share in your beliefs or care whether our “moral compass” meets your standards is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/217 "2012-05-31T12:06:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It doesn’t count - they’re “not true Christians”. Wouldn’t it be more correct to say they’re not true officials of a public school board ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/218 "2012-05-31T12:33:06Z")
I have decided to accept that I am no True Christian ™, as so many knowledgeable experts have told me so for so long. I will still attend the same church and services, but knowing for sure that I am damned takes a lot of pressure off my soul. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/219 "2012-05-31T13:29:57Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I am more concerned about a future godless generation with no moral compass. It’s no wonder that teen suicide rates have skyrocketed and bullying is become a major problem in schools. There is simply a lack of respect and compassion for one’s neighbor out there that is growing and growing. You posted this long after folks pointed out that all of the _“moral compass”_ stuff on the banner would’ve been unobjectionable if they’d left out the _“heavenly father”_ and _“amen”_ brackets around it; why not just champion _“respect and compassion”_ without those brackets? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/220 "2012-05-31T13:37:11Z")
Well you see a **GEEPERS’** Christian is a moral cripple unable to function in a humane manner without divine help. God save us all from those. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=12)