# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/341 "2012-06-01T01:38:55Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Should the US marines change their code of conduct to satisfy atheists? Should the president no longer say “God bless America”? Is it the moral message that counts or isn’t it? Or, is it just beleif in God that you think should be publically promoted? I’m looking forward to our first openly athesit or agnostic president. Other than that, anyone can express thier sincere beliefs as they wish. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/342 "2012-06-01T02:04:03Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I am more concerned about a future godless generation with no moral compass. It’s no wonder that teen suicide rates have skyrocketed and bullying is become a major problem in schools. There is simply a lack of respect and compassion for one’s neighbor out there that is growing and growing. Then fear not. The idea that atheists and agnostics have no moral compass is pure nonsense. If there’s a lack of respect and compassion growing Christians are just as guilty as anyone. God belief isn’t nessecary to treat people with compassion and respect. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/343 "2012-06-01T02:28:31Z")
The teen suicide rate has not “skyrocketed,” by the way. It’s been declining consistently for a couple of decades. It rose significantly between the 50s and 70s and has been decreasing for about 20 years. I think it is now the lowest it’s been in a long time. Awareness of the problem has increased, which can leave people with a different impression even though it can be a good thing. I very much doubt bullying has increased either. It’s just that few school administrators and politicians took it seriously until recently. Cites on suicide rates: [http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page\_id=050fea9f-b064-4092-b1135c3a70de1fda](http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=050fea9f-b064-4092-b1135c3a70de1fda) [http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page\_id=04EB7CD1-9EED-9712-89C9540AFCB44481](http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=04EB7CD1-9EED-9712-89C9540AFCB44481) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/344 "2012-06-01T02:28:55Z")
Hey, for those playing along at home go check out OECD.stat at [http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH\_STAT#](http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT#) Brilliant information, particularly if you wanted to look up mortality statistics, linked to self harm for both men and women across the OECD. I mean you might want to go check and see if there really was an explosion of suicides in the US due to the on rushing tide of unbelievers. I’m as shocked as you to find that it isn’t. 2007 rates per 100,000 were 10.5 verses a 17 year median of 10.6 showing a decline from 1990’s 11.9. Aside from that the OECD site is fantastic - you can play with the data to your heart’s content. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/345 "2012-06-01T03:05:14Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Is it the moral message that counts or isn’t it? Or, is it just beleif in God that you think should be publically promoted? Well… > [@GEEPERS](#): > > I am more concerned about a future godless generation with no moral compass. It seems clear that the argument being made is that they are one and the same; no god, no morality. Which is nonsense of course as many have pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/346 "2012-06-01T03:06:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The teen suicide rate has not “skyrocketed,” by the way. It’s been declining consistently for a couple of decades. It rose significantly between the 50s and 70s and has been decreasing for about 20 years. I think it is now the lowest it’s been in a long time. Awareness of the problem has increased, which can leave people with a different impression even though it can be a good thing. I very much doubt bullying has increased either. It’s just that few school administrators and politicians took it seriously until recently. > > Cites on suicide rates: > > [Home | AFSP](http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=050fea9f-b064-4092-b1135c3a70de1fda) > > [Home | AFSP](http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=04EB7CD1-9EED-9712-89C9540AFCB44481) Whenever dealing with statistical data, it bears doing more research rather than just trusting one cite. Do they explain exactly why it was so high in the 50s - 70s? This cite claims teen suicide has seen a sharp increase within the last 15 years: > **[Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907221530.htm)** > > A new CDC report shows the largest one-year increase in youth suicide rate in 15 years. Suicide rates for 10-19 year-old females and 15-19 year-old males increased significantly in 2004 in the United States. An increase in the suicide rates for three... ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/347 "2012-06-01T03:10:26Z")
Your cite hardly supports any sweeping claims. > [@](#): > > The decline took place from 1990 to 2003 (from 9.48 to 6.78 per 100,000 people), and the increase took place from 2003 to 2004, (from 6.78 to 7.32), the report said. > > “This is the biggest annual increase that we’ve seen in 15 years. We don’t yet know if this is a short-lived increase or if it’s the beginning of a trend,” said Dr. Ileana Arias, director of CDC’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control So you have an outlier, for one single year. Kay. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/348 "2012-06-01T03:11:18Z")
**GEEPERS** are you unable to to read? > [@](#): > > The decline took place from 1990 to 2003 (from 9.48 to 6.78 per 100,000 people), and the increase took place from 2003 to 2004, (from 6.78 to 7.32), the report said. 1990 - 9.48 2003 - 6.78 2004 - 7.32 That’s your sharp increase within 15 years? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/349 "2012-06-01T03:13:32Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Whenever dealing with statistical data, it bears doing more research rather than just trusting one cite. Do they explain exactly why it was so high in the 50s - 70s? > This cite claims teen suicide has seen a sharp increase within the last 15 years: > > [Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years | ScienceDaily](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907221530.htm) That cite doesna say what you thin’ it says, kimosabe. It’s a single year rise…hardly a trend. ETA: or what Finn and Grey said. :smack: -XT ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/350 "2012-06-01T03:22:44Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Do all religions have a Heavenly Father? Um, Mormons, and maybe worshipers of Zeus. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/351 "2012-06-01T04:09:25Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > **GEEPERS** are you unable to to read? Knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/352 "2012-06-01T04:19:40Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I am more concerned about a future godless generation with no moral compass. It’s no wonder that teen suicide rates have skyrocketed and bullying is become a major problem in schools. There is simply a lack of respect and compassion for one’s neighbor out there that is growing and growing. Do we have to have a religion in order to have a moral compass? Bullying has gone on for quite a while. I’d suggest that it is simply recognized and discussed more openly now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/353 "2012-06-01T04:25:45Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Do they explain exactly why it was so high in the 50s - 70s? The cite I posted did not go into it, but I’m sure there are theories. I’d say people at that time looked at mental health issues very differently - for one thing I don’t think people were as willing to go to therapy and were more disapproving of mental illness, and while I have my reservations about drugs in some cases I am sure prescription drugs have helped a significant number of people. > [@](#): > > This cite claims teen suicide has seen a sharp increase within the last 15 years: I realize several posters beat me to it, but no, it does not say that at all. It says suicide rates increased that year (2004) compared to the previous year, but the suicide rate was still much lower that it was in 1990 at 7.32 per 100,000 vs. 9.48 per 100,000. The suicide rate does change from year to year and it’s not always clear why that happens. This is not just true for teens. Suicide rates have fluctuated over the years, but [overall the suicide rate now is about the same as it was in 1965](http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/unitstates.pdf), the worst rates were in the mid '70s, there has been a bit of a decline over the last couple of decades. From other sources I see some indications that the economy has made things a little worse. If you’re suggesting that suicide has increased because there’s less religion in public life and people have lost their moral compass, the facts do not support you. So let’s get back to the original topic. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/354 "2012-06-01T04:41:23Z")
GEEPERS–can you please address the issue with your suicide claim? I’d be ever-so-happy if you would. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/355 "2012-06-01T05:29:03Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Your cite hardly supports any sweeping claims. > > So you have an outlier, for one single year. > Kay. A quick Google search revealed a plethora of claims that teen suicide is indeed on the rise. [http://www.befrienders.org/info/index.asp?PageURL=statistics.php](http://www.befrienders.org/info/index.asp?PageURL=statistics.php) "The WHO further reports that: •In the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (male and female). Suicide attempts are up to 20 times more frequent than completed suicides. •Although suicide rates have traditionally been highest amongst elderly males, rates among young people have been increasing to such an extent that they are now the group at highest risk in a third of all countries" "•Youth suicide is increasing at the greatest rate " > **[Suicide rate increases in teens as an effect of bullying](https://www.collegiatetimes.com/opinion/suicide-rate-increases-in-teens-as-an-effect-of-bullying/article_2d39135d-2f3b-57b2-b346-02ccb1644d47.html)** > > In the last decade, our nation has witnessed a new phenomenon among the youth in America. “Over the past 30 years the suicide rate has tripled in the United States (Santrock, 2002, p.405)” [http://www.mesacc.edu/dept/d46/psy/dev/Fall02/DD/suicide.html](http://www.mesacc.edu/dept/d46/psy/dev/Fall02/DD/suicide.html) I really don’t think atheists live in the real world. Outside your sheltered walls of academia, there is a lot of hurting people out there, and atheism offers ZERO hope. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/356 "2012-06-01T05:33:39Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I really don’t think atheists live in the real world. Outside your sheltered walls of academia, there is a lot of hurting people out there, and atheism offers ZERO hope. Nor does it offer the threat of eternal torture. And the only hope religion can offer is false hope. Atheism _does_ offer the hope for a better world indirectly, given that atheism is the lack of one of the most destructive ideas ever invented. And it’s contradictory to push a faith based worldview then complain that someone else isn’t living in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/357 "2012-06-01T05:37:19Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > “Over the past 30 years the suicide rate has tripled in the United States (Santrock, 2002, p.405)” > > [http://www.mesacc.edu/dept/d46/psy/dev/Fall02/DD/suicide.html](http://www.mesacc.edu/dept/d46/psy/dev/Fall02/DD/suicide.html) WHO [data](http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/unitstates.pdf), as found from your first link, plainly contradicts this claim. While 2002 and 1972 aren’t data points on this graph, there is no point at which anything approaching a tripling of the rate occurs, and if we take 1970 to 2000, there is again a decrease in the rate. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/358 "2012-06-01T05:39:28Z")
Again it seems that you haven’t read your own cite. > [@](#): > > Mental health disorders (particularly depression and substance abuse) are associated with more than 90% of all cases of suicide. > > However, suicide results from many complex sociocultural factors and is more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, family and individual crisis (e.g. loss of a loved one, unemployment, sexual orientation, difficulties with developing one’s identity, disassociation from one’s community or other social/belief group, and honour). In other words, not only is most of it caused by mental health disorders and not beliefs, the sociocultural factors which cause it _include_ the bigoted hate mongering of Christians (and others) who make gay people feel like, what was it? Oh yeah, sinners who aren’t even welcome in someone’s community church even if they’re ardent believers. And “Hey, we have a big Sky God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent… but still allows you to suffer. Oh, and our Sky God has no more proof or validity than the next guy’s” is hardly “hope”. I’d also wager that groups like It Gets Better have done far, far more to prevent teen suicide and provide hope than, say, Christian religious leaders who call for the death of homosexuals. Of course, all of this is just one of your dodges and has nothing to do with the claims made in your OP. It’s just yet another rabbit trail built around your absurd “atheists are teh bad!” nonsense, coupled with a mini-rant about academia. Why that’s thrown in is anybody’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/359 "2012-06-01T05:49:28Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > [http://www.befrienders.org/info/index.asp?PageURL=statistics.php](http://www.befrienders.org/info/index.asp?PageURL=statistics.php) This does not say teen suicide is on the rise. > [@](#): > > [Suicide rate increases in teens as an effect of bullying](http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/15450/suicide-rate-increases-in-teens-as-an-effect-of-bullying) This doesn’t say teen suicides are up either. It says there are now more suicides attributed to bullying than in the past. > [@](#): > > “Over the past 30 years the suicide rate has tripled in the United States (Santrock, 2002, p.405)” This _does_ say the suicide rate is up, but there are no statistics posted to support it. Since the cites I’ve posted (and other people have posted) do have specific data, I think they’re more credible than this community college website. **GEEPERS** , rather than launching another screed against atheists, can you get back to the Constitution and the Rhode Island school case? You’ve lost this argument about suicide in an overwhelming way. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/360 "2012-06-01T10:16:18Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Whenever dealing with statistical data, it bears doing more research rather than just trusting one cite. Agreed, clearly the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/suicide/statistics/trends02.html) is an unreliable source, maybe you can find a few random bloggers to make vague, poorly supported claims that we can REALLY trust. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=19)