# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/381 "2012-06-02T03:12:58Z")
_shrug_ We are not in the business of “giving hope”. We are in the business of \*actually \*solving problems, treating illnesses and finding correct answers. If hope is given or found along the way, fine and dandy, but it’s really surplus to requirements. OTOH magical gesticulations, reciting hocus-pocus and inflicting tired sacharrine pablums on the bereaved and the afflicted under the pretext that “it will do nothing, but at least it will give you hope !” is worse than simply worthless: it’s quite insulting. Not to mention infantilizing. PS: The Truth shall make ye fret. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/382 "2012-06-02T03:29:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Gee, when you put it like that, the kind of faith Geepers is promoting seems kinda childish and simplistic. > > Silly, even. I have no problems with Faith, or a belief in something higher than us. None at all. But the voice that says we are nothing without God, that we cannot change things without God, that everything that happens is Gods Will and we have no part in it but to surrender and pray that He will fix things… That is the voice of terror crying out in the darkness. The voice of the child who sees Hope in the idea that s/he won’t have to grow up and accept responsibility for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/383 "2012-06-02T03:37:25Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Can I get an Amen?!!! Amen! **Chimera** ’s post might have been a bit more persuasive if he’d thrown in a few "fuck"s to establish his atheist cred, but still, very well put. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/384 "2012-06-02T03:42:52Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The Hope is the realization that WE ALONE have the power to do both good and evil. That Justice and Mercy and Fairness do not come from outside, they do not exist in the Universe EXCEPT BY OUR HEARTS, MINDS AND HANDS. That to me is the real beauty of this world. That _ **WE** _ are the ones who dream, idealize and create Mercy and Justice. And the other hope it offers is that we will be _allowed_ to do good; there’s no Divine Plan that guarantees our failure before we even start. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/385 "2012-06-02T10:18:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Nonetheless, the relevant question in this thread is whether the First Amendment was intended to limit religious expression by state and local governments. The evident doesn’t seem to suggest that Madison thought so, much less that the framers in general thought so. Whatever the intent of the Founders may have been is immaterial, in that the Supreme Court in the earl 1800s determined that the Bill of Rights was intended to bar actions in contravention of human rights by the Federal government, as distinguished from the states and their creatures the local governments. The Fourteenth Amendment, on the other hand, forbade the **states** from abridging the rights of citizens of the United States, which rights have seriatim been found in the Bill of Rights among other places as relevant court cases came up. Which means that neither the Federal government, the states, the counties, the cities, the towns, the villages, the school districts, nor any other governmental entity may enact a law, rule, regulation, ordinance, or edict respecting an establishment of religion. Notice that the wording is not “establishment of a religion,” which would simply bar anybody from making the Catholic or Presbyterian Church or the Baptist Convention or the First Presidency of the Latter Day Saints as the established church of the relevant jurisdiction. This phrasing is broader, and speaks of “an establishment of religion” – which jurisprudence has consistently held means mandating any religious act, spending public moneys for specifically religious purposes, or permitting any official or employee of any government to require or coerce anyone into a religious act while in their official capacity. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/386 "2012-06-02T11:25:17Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Can I get an Amen?!!! No, but I will agree to a selya. (All kidding aside, that was really awesome. At the next Atheists’ Agenda meeting, we should adopt it as our creed right after “fuck with the Christians.”) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/387 "2012-06-02T11:50:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I have no problems with Faith, or a belief in something higher than us. None at all. > > But the voice that says we are nothing without God, that we cannot change things without God, that everything that happens is Gods Will and we have no part in it but to surrender and pray that He will fix things… > > That is the voice of terror crying out in the darkness. > > The voice of the child who sees Hope in the idea that s/he won’t have to grow up and accept responsibility for anything. Exactly. As I made the transition from Christian to spiritually leaning agnostic I realized that whatever was or wasn’t true about a spiritual reality, what did not make sense was a God that wanted our worship, praise and obedience. If there is a spiritual reality we don’t comprehend we are already fully part of it, and engaged in the process. Regardless of labels , it’s up to us to choose our priorities and how our time and energy will be spent , and take full responsibility for those choices and what they mean to ourselves and others. All believers , agnostics and atheists are in the same boat, and make those same personal choices. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/388 "2012-06-02T11:53:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, but I will agree to a selya. > (All kidding aside, that was really awesome. At the next Atheists’ Agenda meeting, we should adopt it as our creed right after “fuck with the Christians.”) I’d only be there as an interested observer since I’m not an atheist. I’m not particularly interested in fucking with Christians, {maybe the hot ones} but I do see the need to challenge ignorence and superstition. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/389 "2012-06-02T11:57:58Z")
Well, unfortunately the Oppress Christians Whererever We Can Find 'Em party plank is quite absolute. Luckily we realized several years ago that just by not believing what they do, and sometimes stopping them from preaching at our children with state funds, was enough to oppress them. We’ve just kinda let sloth take over from that point on, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/390 "2012-06-02T12:29:11Z")
This is just an example of an atheist being a (whiny) dick. Nothing more, nothing less. Now, [way back when I was in middle school](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19980310&id=Sq9NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sPwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2607,8767530), there was an “incident” where a couple of students and their parents got in a tizzy because, during a diversity rally, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes read from a verse from the Bible and did some kind of dance routine to a Christian song while another kid sang the Black National Anthem (which mentions God like a gajillion times). It was all over the news for a while. I believe in the end the principle ended up resigning, and at next years rally not only was the FCA not allowed to perform, but when whoever it was sang the Black National Anthem, he didn’t even sing the whole thing in fear of offending someone. It was actually quite humorous, it was. /randomanecdote Point being, I sometimes think atheists, in general, go around looking for things to be offended by and do things to actively annoy the majority. Lord knows I wouldn’t care one iota if a school had a banner up asking Zeus, Allah, Shiva or whoever for strength. But that’s probably because I’m not offended by any mention of any god or goddess in any venue. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/391 "2012-06-02T13:04:58Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This is just an example of an atheist being a (whiny) dick. Nothing more, nothing less. Except it isn’t, and you left out the part of the Christian defenders being overbearing, insulting, and threatening. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/392 "2012-06-02T13:31:02Z")
There’s a Black National Anthem? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/393 "2012-06-02T13:33:35Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > On the contrary, Athiests accept the real world. At least those who really think it through. > > No god? That means that we are completely responsible for everything we do, or don’t do. We made this mess, we create our own problems, we create the illusion that we call The World. We cannot pray it away, we cannot absolve ourselves of responsibility by saying God (or Satan) did it. We cannot relieve ourselves of the duty to correct it by saying that it is in God’s hands or his will (and therefore we’re free to do fuck all nothing to fix anything). > > The Hope is the realization that WE ALONE have the power to do both good and evil. That Justice and Mercy and Fairness do not come from outside, they do not exist in the Universe EXCEPT BY OUR HEARTS, MINDS AND HANDS. That to me is the real beauty of this world. That _ **WE** _ are the ones who dream, idealize and create Mercy and Justice. > > The hope and truth is that Humanity isn’t dependent on something higher to create or correct us, but that this power lies within us. > > And it always has. You sound like my minister (who is, herself, agnostic). And that is why I go to church. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/394 "2012-06-02T13:54:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > There’s a Black National Anthem? “It’s just like the regular National anthem, except it’s got rhythm.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/395 "2012-06-02T14:07:39Z")
And instead of a hand over your heart, I assume you raise a gloved fist in the air. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/396 "2012-06-02T15:02:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > There’s a Black National Anthem? Yes, the National Anthem of African America. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/397 "2012-06-02T16:04:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Point being, I sometimes think atheists, in general, go around looking for things to be offended by and do things to actively annoy the majority. Lord knows I wouldn’t care one iota if a school had a banner up asking Zeus, Allah, Shiva or whoever for strength. But that’s probably because I’m not offended by any mention of any god or goddess in any venue. Oh, rubbish. If atheists are the only ones who look for things to be offended by, why does every commentator on Fox News go into a frothy rage when they hear somebody say “holiday tree”? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/398 "2012-06-02T19:15:17Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Point being, I sometimes think atheists, in general, go around looking for things to be offended by and do things to actively annoy the majority. Lord knows I wouldn’t care one iota if a school had a banner up asking Zeus, Allah, Shiva or whoever for strength. But that’s probably because I’m not offended by any mention of any god or goddess in any venue. There’ll inevitably be some overeager individuals, but I don’t see that as true of atheists in general. It might look that way because there’s more for atheists to object to. Christians can’t get upset by atheist creeds in government buildings because there aren’t any. I wouldn’t be affected personally by the banner if it was in my school because invoking a heavenly father doesn’t do anything for me. But I’d care about it being there. Separation of church and state exists for a good reason, and ignoring it renders it pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/399 "2012-06-02T19:51:13Z")
Many thanks to **Chimera**. You made my weekend. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/400 "2012-06-02T19:55:05Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This is just an example of an atheist being a (whiny) dick. Nothing more, nothing less. > > Now, [way back when I was in middle school](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19980310&id=Sq9NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sPwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2607,8767530), there was an “incident” where a couple of students and their parents got in a tizzy because, during a diversity rally, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes read from a verse from the Bible and did some kind of dance routine to a Christian song while another kid sang the Black National Anthem (which mentions God like a gajillion times). It was all over the news for a while. I believe in the end the principle ended up resigning, and at next years rally not only was the FCA not allowed to perform, but when whoever it was sang the Black National Anthem, he didn’t even sing the whole thing in fear of offending someone. It was actually quite humorous, it was. > > /randomanecdote > > Point being, I sometimes think atheists, in general, go around looking for things to be offended by and do things to actively annoy the majority. Lord knows I wouldn’t care one iota if a school had a banner up asking Zeus, Allah, Shiva or whoever for strength. But that’s probably because I’m not offended by any mention of any god or goddess in any venue. Personally I can take what I want and leave the rest and generally have no problem with religious chatter , but it sounds to me like the diversity rally was pretty close to a Christian fellowship rally. I think people have to be aware that in a more diverse society people who are not Christian ought to get some consideration. In the case above, this one girl was not the only one who didn’t like the banner. She just happened to be the one to speak up and follow through. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=21)