# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/441 "2012-06-04T17:25:07Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong… Oh, now you’re open to this? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/442 "2012-06-04T17:29:53Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Perhaps, they need to feel good about themselves since France has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe and 40% higher than Germany and the US. Kinda funny how when you kick God out of a country, suicide rate goes up. > [Suicide in France - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_France) What does that have to do with anything ? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/443 "2012-06-04T17:32:01Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I only have to look back towards post 416 which implied that hate spewing rhetoric was the norm among Christians. It implies nothing of the sort. It solely states that “hateful folk calling themselves Christian” vastly outnumbered “atheists who want to see all religion go away”. Which, again, seems like a sound and factual statement by demographics alone. ETA (and in fact it was the very post I was referring to. Don’t know wherefrom I pulled the name \*\*Etychus \*\*when I meant **cosmodan** ) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/444 "2012-06-04T17:35:20Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > The correlation does exist, FWIW, e.g. [here](http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/more-religious-countries-lower-suicide-rates.aspx). But it’s quite irrelevant to the discussion. There’s some flaws in the conclusion. Comparing the Philippines to Japan is not valid. Christianity considers suicide a sin while Japan is not a Christian based nation but the culture “encourages” suicide. There are several pairings of similar rates of religiosity with a wide difference in suicide rates. Belgium vs. UK both at 33%-21 to 7. I would also question the accuracy of the suicide rate reported. Haiti- 0 suicides, really? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/445 "2012-06-04T17:36:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but you partipated actively in the suicide tangent as well. I corrected some errors you made, yes. Did that somehow prevent you from addressing the original thread topic? You brought up the suicide thing in the first place for reasons that are still murky. You say atheism is bad and atheists are hopeless, and while the facts don’t agree with you, so what? That has no bearing on the establishment of religion. The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it was a prayer formulated in specifically Christian terms hanging at a public school, the problem with the Christian fraternity at Vanderbilt is that they were violating the school’s non-discrimination policy. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/446 "2012-06-04T18:02:23Z")
look what poor sports they were about losing! ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/447 "2012-06-04T18:04:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I corrected some errors you made, yes. Did that somehow prevent you from addressing the original thread topic? You brought up the suicide thing in the first place for reasons that are still murky. You say atheism is bad and atheists are hopeless, and while the facts don’t agree with you, so what? That has no bearing on the establishment of religion. The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it was a prayer formulated in specifically Christian terms hanging at a public school, the problem with the Christian fraternity at Vanderbilt is that they were violating the school’s non-discrimination policy. The fact remains that you encourage the tangent by actively participating, but I can certainly get back to the OT. The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it is a case where the majority is deprived because of a single voice of complaint. This student had every right to ignore the banner, or simply go to another school if she thought religion was being forced on her. Atheists seem to be the main ones out there raising a big stink over nothing. “Our Heavenly Father” specifically can be used by the world’s three biggest religions - Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. There are other mythological beliefs of a sky father as well: > **[Sky father](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_father)** > > In comparative mythology, sky father is a term for a recurring concept in polytheistic religions of a sky god who is addressed as a "father", often the father of a pantheon and is often either a reigning or former King of the Gods. The concept of "sky father" may also be taken to include Sun gods with similar characteristics, such as Ra. The concept is complementary to an "earth mother". > "Sky Father" is a direct translation of the Vedic Dyaus Pita, etymologically descended from the same Proto-In... Therefore, the banner can apply to many religions. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/448 "2012-06-04T18:10:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > **The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it is a case where the majority is deprived** because of a single voice of complaint. This student had every right to ignore the banner, or simply go to another school if she thought religion was being forced on her. Atheists seem to be the main ones out there raising a big stink over nothing. Deprived of what? They don’t get enough at home and church? Not all school districts allow students to attend another school. Or it may be the only school in town. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/449 "2012-06-04T18:11:49Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it is a case where the majority is deprived because of a single voice of complaint. This student had every right to ignore the banner, or simply go to another school if she thought religion was being forced on her. Atheists seem to be the main ones out there raising a big stink over nothing. And yet, as I have already told you earlier in the thread, by that same token your congregation should “have every right to ignore” teh gays should they want to join in, no ? It’s only fair. Surely you can’t ask some people to “just suck it up and get on with your day”, when you demonstrably won’t ? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/450 "2012-06-04T18:17:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Therefore, the banner can apply to many religions. Is there any public place atheists can be rid of all of them? Or are Christians being oppressed if their graffiti is not allowed in every fucking public place they desire? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/451 "2012-06-04T18:21:01Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it is a case where the majority is deprived because of a single voice of complaint. The views of the majority have no bearing on whether or not something is Constitutional. That’s sort of why the Bill of Rights exists. > [@](#): > > “Our Heavenly Father” specifically can be used by the world’s three biggest religions - Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. It doesn’t matter who _could_ use it. What matters is who _does_ use it, and it’s unique to Christianity. It’s not used in Jewish or Muslim prayers, nevermind prayers by members of any other faith. The fact that phrases like “Our Heavenly Father” are used repeatedly in the New Testament and not in the Old or in the Quran is a hint that the wording is specifically Christian. For the record, Judaism is not one of the world’s three biggest religions. It’s not even close. There are around 14 million Jews compared to almost a billion Hindus and maybe half that many Buddhists. And Hindus and Buddhists wouldn’t say “Our Heavenly Father” either. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/452 "2012-06-04T18:40:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The views of the majority have no bearing on whether or not something is Constitutional. That’s sort of why the Bill of Rights exists. Let’s say this one more time. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/453 "2012-06-04T18:51:59Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > The correlation does exist, FWIW, e.g. [here](http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/more-religious-countries-lower-suicide-rates.aspx). But it’s quite irrelevant to the discussion. That’s an rsquared of .41. That isn’t exactly a great correlation. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/454 "2012-06-04T19:00:22Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > There are other mythological beliefs of a sky father as well: > > [Sky father - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_father) > > Therefore, the banner can apply to many religions. It doesn’t matter how many religions you think it applies to. The Constitution says it can’t be used in government institutions. Period. It doesn’t specifically block Christianity. Beseeching Allah, Vishnu, Thor or Satan isn’t permitted either. Period. If you want elements of religion in government, you’ll have to change the Constitution. Until then, they’re not allowed. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/455 "2012-06-04T19:10:40Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > It doesn’t matter how many religions you think it applies to. The Constitution says it can’t be used in government institutions. Period. > > It doesn’t specifically block Christianity. Beseeching Allah, Vishnu, Thor or Satan isn’t permitted either. Period. > > If you want elements of religion in government, you’ll have to change the Constitution. Until then, they’re not allowed. Period. Obviously you do not understand the argument. It is “weeeh, people I don’t like have rights too, it’s not faaihaaair!” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/456 "2012-06-04T19:12:58Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Therefore, the banner can apply to many religions. Yes. That’s the problem. See, you’re getting it ! ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/457 "2012-06-04T19:13:20Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > It doesn’t matter how many religions you think it applies to. The Constitution says it can’t be used in government institutions. Period. > > It doesn’t specifically block Christianity. Beseeching Allah, Vishnu, Thor or Satan isn’t permitted either. Period. > > If you want elements of religion in government, you’ll have to change the Constitution. Until then, they’re not allowed. Period. It’s not that black and white. The problem is atheists and the ACLU have reinterpreted the Establishment Clause to meet their agenda. The clause was designed to prevent governments from declaring an official religion. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …” The school did not make any law forcing students to recite the prayer. OTOH, atheists have now prohited students from seeing the banner. It’s unconstitutional, unjust, and un-American. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/458 "2012-06-04T19:16:43Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > OTOH, atheists have now prohited students from seeing the banner. It’s unconstitutional, unjust, and un-American. If the kids at that school are wearing shirts that say the same thing, then they haven’t been prevented from seeing jack squat. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/459 "2012-06-04T19:17:40Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > This student had every right to ignore the banner, or simply go to another school if she thought religion was being forced on her. Atheists seem to be the main ones out there raising a big stink over nothing. OR christians can send their children to private schools that cater to their worldview rather than complaining about secular (by law) schools failing to promote christian views. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/460 "2012-06-04T19:18:05Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It’s unconstitutional, unjust, and un-American. You have that exactly backwards. No one is keeping the students from worshiping as their parents brain-washed them to. The only thing is that public dollars don’t get to wave the Jesus flag, no matter how much you want them to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=24)