# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/521 "2012-06-05T03:27:12Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Actually this particular atheist packed up his duffel bag and went to N.O. for 3 months to repair/rebuild. > > What I saw there were a lot of people who needed help, and a lot of people who came to help. I assure you, I busted my ass just as hard as the Christians who came down to help. And, if I may be so bold, I did it because it was the right thing to do, not because I expect some repayment in the afterlife.😉 kudos ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/522 "2012-06-05T03:48:18Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The fact remains that you encourage the tangent by actively participating, but I can certainly get back to the OT. > The problem with the Rhode Island banner is that it is a case where the majority is deprived because of a single voice of complaint. It wasn’t a single voice. She got the attention and the publicity but there were others who agreed with her. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/523 "2012-06-05T03:54:33Z")
I’m not willing to say that no public building can have a banner with a prayer up – for instance, a university may have a humanities building with a religious studies or even cultural studies floor. I’d have no objection to them having a Christian prayer banner up SO LONG AS they also fairly display a significant selection of creeds and symbols of other religions and/or religion-related movements (within reason, of course). It’s all about context, a public organization or setting that is set up to promote equal religious tolerance or study can show symbols as long as no religion (or substantive anti-religious movement) is treated preferentially. It’s not about banning Christianity or religion – it’s about not discriminating and representing people fairly. More to the point, it’s about not preferring one religion to another, and not preferring **irreligion or religion** over each other. A sign that says “religion is stupid” would be just as bad as a prayer because it would make people with religious beliefs uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/524 "2012-06-05T03:55:39Z")
It should be noted that Atheists don’t help the Salvation Army because they are unwanted. If you are an out of the closet atheist you will be removed from your duties in the organization. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/525 "2012-06-05T05:15:55Z")
I agree with the OP to the extent that the First Amendment, even as applied to the states, only prohibit an establishment of religion envisioned by the founders. Recent court decisions to the contrary, prayer in school, posting the ten commandments, or the hanging of a banner is laughably short of an establishment of a religion by a state agency. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/526 "2012-06-05T05:34:43Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I agree with the OP to the extent that the First Amendment, even as applied to the states, only prohibit an establishment of religion envisioned by the founders. > > Recent court decisions to the contrary, prayer in school, posting the ten commandments, or the hanging of a banner is laughably short of an establishment of a religion by a state agency. And state and federal laws to the contrary, I have the right to walk into your home and take anything I want. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/527 "2012-06-05T06:09:31Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Recent court decisions to the contrary, prayer in school, posting the ten commandments, or the hanging of a banner is laughably short of an establishment of a religion by a state agency. On the contrary. such (now) prohibited actions are the essence of “respecting an establishment of religion.” In fact, the SCOTUS has had to dance around the topic with its “cermonial deism” idea simply to allow a number of acts that are pretty clearly in violation of that declaration. For a state agency to engage in any sort of proselytizing or promotion of specific religious beliefs can only be accurately identified as acts “respecting an establshment of religion.” The truth of this can be found in the reactions to any counter-proposal. Suggestions to permit quotations from the Qu’ran or the Vedas are never tolerated on the grounds that they are promoting those respective religions. For that matter, a look at many of the occasions where prayers or public displays of religious icons or tracts have been introduced turns up a steady list of declarations that the intention was to express the religious beliefs of some segment of the population. The locations where people have had to petition the courts to put a stop to prayers imposed by government agencies have generally been engaged in a very open promotion of a specific variety of Protestant Christianity. It may seem like a bit of overstretching to include displays of the Decalogue among proscribed actions, but it is simply the use of a bright line to identify which actions may be permitted. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/528 "2012-06-05T06:33:12Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Well, no _true_ Christian disagreed with him. There’s apparently only one true Christian in this world, GEEPERS be his name. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/529 "2012-06-05T06:44:01Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Recent court decisions to the contrary, prayer in school, posting the ten commandments, or the hanging of a banner is laughably short of an establishment of a religion by a state agency. It’s only “laughable” if you happen to agree with the religion being pushed. If you are a Muslim or Hindu or atheist facing a judge who has the Ten Commandments embroidered on his robe you might feel differently. Its easy to handwave away such things as unimportant when you aren’t the target of this religious hatred. And it is about hatred, as we are seeing with this girl. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/530 "2012-06-05T08:36:29Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Consider reading further on, to the Fourteenth Amendment. You know, the one that says states are not free to abridge the rights of U.S. citizens, and must give them the equal protection of the law? For decades the Supreme Court thought the Fourteenth Amendment was consistent with Jim Crow Laws. The same Congress that voted for the Fourteenth Amendment also voted to preserve school segregation in Washington, DC public schools. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/531 "2012-06-05T08:40:38Z")
I dislike Supreme Court decisions that overturn popular laws that have been in effect for a long time. I do not care whether those decisions are considered to be progressive or reactionary. Why should we assume that nine Supreme Court justices have a better understanding of the United States Constitution than the President, the Congress, and the electorate? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/532 "2012-06-05T08:45:58Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > For decades the Supreme Court thought the Fourteenth Amendment was consistent with Jim Crow Laws. The same Congress that voted for the Fourteenth Amendment also voted to preserve school segregation in Washington, DC public schools. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I dislike Supreme Court decisions that overturn popular laws that have been in effect for a long time. I do not care whether those decisions are considered to be progressive or reactionary. Why should we assume that nine Supreme Court justices have a better understanding of the United States Constitution than the President, the Congress, and the electorate? That was a fast flip-flop. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/533 "2012-06-05T10:05:21Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > That was a fast flip-flop. Where’s the flip flop? I dislike the power of the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/534 "2012-06-05T10:11:12Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I dislike Supreme Court decisions that overturn popular laws that have been in effect for a long time. I do not care whether those decisions are considered to be progressive or reactionary. Why should we assume that nine Supreme Court justices have a better understanding of the United States Constitution than the President, the Congress, and the electorate? Um. perhaps because that is the very definition of their role of the Supreme Court of the United States? In my limited and overly simplistic understanding, the justices are tasked with reviewing actions taken by the other branches of our government, and they are sensitive to the fallacy that “popular” is the same as correct (or constitutional). ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/535 "2012-06-05T12:50:59Z")
Since the electorate pretty much votes “I don’t like it, make it illegal!”, I have no problem thinking that the Supreme Court has a better understanding of the United States Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/536 "2012-06-05T12:58:14Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I dislike Supreme Court decisions that overturn popular laws that have been in effect for a long time. I do not care whether those decisions are considered to be progressive or reactionary. Why should we assume that nine Supreme Court justices have a better understanding of the United States Constitution than the President, the Congress, and the electorate? I don’t get the logic of this at all. Let’s take the first part which implies just because something has been accepted for a certain period of time, it must be okay. Hmm, slavery anyone? Maybe we should go back to allowing duels. Sorry, we as a society have to evolve. Secondly, we CAN assume that Supreme Court Justices have a higher level of understanding of the law. Well, cause, that’s kinda their only reason for being there. The Congress? Seriously? Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain, a Biography The Electorate? Uh, no. I don’t think the average dude on the street should be trusted with making rulings on the constitutionality of a major issue. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/537 "2012-06-05T13:25:09Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I dislike Supreme Court decisions that overturn popular laws that have been in effect for a long time. I do not care whether those decisions are considered to be progressive or reactionary. Why should we assume that nine Supreme Court justices have a better understanding of the United States Constitution than the President, the Congress, and the electorate? How many people have to be in favor for a law to be “popular”? How long is “a long time”? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/538 "2012-06-05T17:17:03Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > First of all, yes. Absolutely. We doth detest Christianity so. Like we doth detest all other religions. It doesn’t matter that the message was Christian, Hindu, Muslim or Taoist. We hate it equally. When it sits on the wall of a public building. > > And you’re right, we want it scrubbed, we truly do, but not from public _view_. From public buildings. > We’ve told you many times already, **we don’t give a shit if you put it on a billboard** \*\* right outside the school\*\*. As long as its on private ground and there is no possible confusion, as long as no one can possibly think “this is a government endorsed message”, then your god bothering is… well, it’s still pretty annoying, I’ll be honest. But you still have every right to push it. > There. Not here. Because here is not the same as there. Get it ? Got it ? Good. > > EDIT: PS: you still have not elucidated to me why this little girl “had the right to ignore” the banner, but your congregation doesn’t exercise its “right to ignore” gay people in its midst. I’d really like a heads up on that front. See, I was right. A lot of atheists really do hate Christians and have a strong desire to erase it from society. From a spiritual perspective, the darkness does not like the light. I really don’t see the difference between a message on public buildings vs billboards. You are still exposed to the message. How does one or the other change your life a single iota? It doesn’t. Yet, you will award this girl from taking away a moral message while berating those who would erect a cross memorial on a fire station. Most Americans find that distasteful. > [@Kobal2](#): > > EDIT: PS: you still have not elucidated to me why this little girl “had the right to ignore” the banner, but your congregation doesn’t exercise its “right to ignore” gay people in its midst. I’d really like a heads up on that front. Christians have exercised the right to ignore gays for many years, but now society is forcing the agenda on us. I can’t even read Green Lantern or Archie comics now without being forced to accept a homosexual message. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/539 "2012-06-05T17:21:17Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I really don’t see the difference between a message on public buildings vs billboards. This is the crux of your problem. I suggest that you step back and think on this until you do comprehend the difference. That may resolve this entire discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/540 "2012-06-05T17:21:35Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I really don’t see the difference between a message on public buildings vs billboards. You are still exposed to the message. How does one or the other change your life a single iota? It doesn’t. One of them uses public funds, which as taxpayers we exercise a degree of control over. How does removing a banner from a school in Rhode Island you’ve presumably never been to affect _you_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=28)