# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/561 "2012-06-05T19:39:45Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It’s no secret that atheism thrives in the academic environment, and non-Christian universities are becoming increasing hostile to people of faith. It’s one thing to establish rules against discrimination. It’s quite another to EXEMPT other organizations from the rules, but enforce them against Christian ones. Apparently, this is what is happening at Vanderbilt: > > \*Rep. Blackburn pointed out that Vanderbilt exempts fraternities and sororities from its “all comers” policy based on Title IX. Using similar criteria, she points out that religious student groups could be exempted from the non-discrimination policy under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which allows religious groups to use faith as a criteria for who they hire. > > Rep. Diane Black – who also signed the letter - did not hold back in criticizing Vanderbilt. “By exempting Greek organizations but refusing to exempt religious organizations it appears that religious discrimination is the aim of this policy," she said in a written statement. "As a private institution Vanderbilt is not exempt from the Constitution, and I encourage them to rethink this misguided policy.”\* > > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/07/house-members-blast-vanderbilt-for-policy-hostile-to-religious-groups-on-campus/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/07/house-members-blast-vanderbilt-for-policy-hostile-to-religious-groups-on-campus/) > > Of course, I’m sure you have no problem with that. It’s fine and dandy to limit the freedoms of Christians, but not apply the same rules to other groups, right? > > Then why do you bother to keep explaining it? It’s obvious that I’m not going to agree with your typical rhetoric. Every word you post here is biased against Christians. Nope, you’ll continue to pound this topic into oblivion. You already posted twice before I even had a chance to respond. Umm really? you do realize those same rules are the ones that keep gays out of scoutes and heathens out of the salvation army? Most of the case law that allows individuals to restrict membership to private groups is from religious groups restricting membership from non-believers. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/562 "2012-06-05T19:42:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … you are free to practice your religion the way you want to in your home or your church. You’re not entitled to support from any private entity that disagrees with your views, and you’re not entitled to unrestricted use of government funds or facilities. None of this restricts your ability to practice your religion. It does mean that not everybody wants to support your religious practices, but then again, they don’t have to support them because the Constitution grants freedom of religious practices to everybody, and it does not award public or private support to any religion. Read that. Read it again. It is clear, and easy to understand, right there. If you have questions ask, but it is very very simply put there. Crystal clear. I cannot see how you can possibly not understand the point here with that quote. I expect, however, that I am speaking to a wall who is not interested in debate… ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/563 "2012-06-05T19:42:25Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Do you throw away all your money in digust? After all, it says “IN GOD WE TRUST”. No, you probably just ignore it. Why couldn’t this student do the same? Yet, she destroyed a moral message and a historical artifact. Way to go, atheists! Actually, she didn’t destroy anything. The banner still exists in a Cranston storeroom somewhere. And, for the record, she does use money which has “In God We Trust” crossed out with a black marker. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/564 "2012-06-05T19:45:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Of course, I’m sure you have no problem with that. A problem with what? Exempting some organizations and not others? I don’t know if that’s what’s happening, and I don’t really the Congressional Prayer Caucus (and what a nauseating phrase that is) to provide an accurate view into what is happening. I think Vanderbilt should apply its policy constitently, whatever that policy is. But I also think that doesn’t really affect what we are discussing here. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Then why do you bother to keep explaining it? Because it is factually true. So I’m holding out the vain hope you will acknowledge the facts and attempt to discuss the Constitutional issue rationally based on an informed understanding of the law and the relevant policies instead of howling about how you are being persecuted. Tell me this: if you bought the banner and hung it up in your home, what do you think would happen? Do you think the government would come and take it down? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/565 "2012-06-05T19:47:23Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > \*Rep. Blackburn pointed out that Vanderbilt exempts fraternities and sororities from its “all comers” policy based on Title IX. Using similar criteria, she points out that religious student groups could be exempted from the non-discrimination policy under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which allows religious groups to use faith as a criteria for who they hire. Your problem is that you take everything on faith (if you’ll pardon the pun). Did you even read this paragraph before quoting it? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/566 "2012-06-05T20:03:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Your problem is that you take everything on faith (if you’ll pardon the pun). Did you even read this paragraph before quoting it? What’s your point? It says that the organization moved off campus. It’s a shame that students no longer have access to the group on campus. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/567 "2012-06-05T20:13:45Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > What’s your point? It says that the organization moved off campus. It’s a shame that students no longer have access to the group on campus. Would you feel the same way if the group “that students no longer had access to on campus” were Muslim? Hindu? Druids? Wiccan? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say not. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/568 "2012-06-05T20:19:31Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > What’s your point? It says that the organization moved off campus. It’s a shame that students no longer have access to the group on campus. You said earlier that if the girl in the OP didn’t like the religious attitude at school, she was free to go somewhere else. Seems to me that this group is taking the same approach you espouse - they don’t want to follow campus rules, so they’re moving off campus. Why do you consider this a problem? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/569 "2012-06-05T20:30:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/07/house-members-blast-vanderbilt-for-policy-hostile-to-religious-groups-on-campus/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/07/house-members-blast-vanderbilt-for-policy-hostile-to-religious-groups-on-campus/) > > Of course, I’m sure you have no problem with that. It’s fine and dandy to limit the freedoms of Christians, but not apply the same rules to other groups, right? I think that Vanderbilt’s rules are pretty stupid and unfair. (The notion that a Southern Baptist could become the president of the Mormon Club is rather silly.) On the other hand, Vanderbilt is a private university and has nothing to do with laws governing publicly supported schools. Vanderbilt has the same right to make stupid and discriminatory rules that Falwell’s Liberty University has. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/570 "2012-06-05T20:33:36Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It’s a shame that students no longer have access to the group on campus. However the program still exists. It’s no longer on campus because it was not abiding by the university’s policies, and they decided they would rather stick to their own policies than change them as a condition of using university facilities. The Congresswoman says the university could have made an exception to its policy, although I question her ability to objectively evaluate the situation since she has a vested interest in it. But the bottom line here isn’t changing: Vanderbilt is a private university, and it can pretty much make whatever policies it wants with regard to using its facilities. If groups don’t like those policies and can’t convince the school to change them, they don’t have to use its facilities. They are certainly not _entitled_, Constitutionally or otherwise, to use those facilities. The university gets to decide who can use its buildings or its name. The idea that I am Constitutionally entitled to something that belongs to you - use of a house you own or your money - is absurd. If you disagree, I’m founding The First Church of Everybody Has to Give Me All Their Money. Publicly funded schools and other facilities have to follow the law, and generally they have less discretion than a private institution does. A state high school, for example, cannot officially endorse a religion by putting up a Christian banner on the wall. A private school could do that with no problem, but a public school cannot because it gives state endorsement to one religion. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/571 "2012-06-05T20:41:59Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > See, I was right. A lot of atheists really do hate Christians and have a strong desire to erase it from society. From a spiritual perspective, the darkness does not like the light. Do you think we ignite upon contact with holy water too? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/572 "2012-06-05T21:03:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Tell me this: if you bought the banner and hung it up in your home, what do you think would happen? Do you think the government would come and take it down? It would be nice to see an answer to this. Go ahead. Put a banner like this up in your home. In your church. In your private business. Buy a billboard and put it on there. Put a giant one behind a plane and fly it around the city. But sorry, you cannot put it on the wall of a government building that has been built and paid for by taxpayers of a variety of faiths and creeds, or of no faith at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/573 "2012-06-05T21:53:24Z")
I think [this cartoon](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sru2QnFmxK8/T2cJ-GCwP8I/AAAAAAAABfA/053Ty96GCEs/s400/ath.gif) sums up **GEEPERS** ’ argument succinctly. Or possibly [this one](http://freethinker.co.uk/images/uploads/2010/04/JMMay.jpg). And definitely [this one](http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/files/2012/02/Persecution.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Mewl\_Dear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mewl\_Dear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mewl_Dear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/574 "2012-06-05T22:00:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It’s no secret that atheism thrives in the academic environment… I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/575 "2012-06-05T22:11:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Do you think we ignite upon contact with holy water too? That would be Catholic dogma. They are not true Christians. See any Jack Chick tract. (Haw Haw!) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/576 "2012-06-05T23:38:12Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > What’s your point? It says that the organization moved off campus. It’s a shame that students no longer have access to the group on campus. It says the organization could be excepted under Title VII, on the grounds that Title VII allows… something completely unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/577 "2012-06-06T00:23:27Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Christians have exercised the right to ignore gays for many years, but now society is forcing the agenda on us. I can’t even read Green Lantern or Archie comics now without being forced to accept a homosexual message. What “agenda” is that? Authors have no right to change their stories in order not to offend you. If it bothers you, don’t read it. Don’t like that? Too bad, so sad. (And before you accuse me of it, I’m neither an atheist, nor do I hate Christianity. Just ignorance and bigotry) ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/578 "2012-06-06T00:24:17Z")
While we’re busy telling teenagers to love the illegal endorsement of Christianity or leave it, we might as well [tell the rest of the Atheists they’re not welcome or needed in this country either](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=75b1FMzGTB8). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/579 "2012-06-06T00:35:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Do you think we ignite upon contact with holy water too? _throws holy water on **Der Trihs** just to see what happens_ BTW, **GEEPERS** , my parents – devout Catholics – were watching a news segment last night about homophobia in various churches, and were absolutely disgusted by it. So don’t claim to speak for all Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/580 "2012-06-06T01:08:10Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > See, I was right. A lot of atheists really do hate Christians and have a strong desire to erase it from society. public walls != society. > [@](#): > > I really don’t see the difference between a message on public buildings vs billboards. You are still exposed to the message. Precisely. > [@](#): > > How does one or the other change your life a single iota? Mine ? None at all. The students of Cranston however, as I’ve said in my very first post in this thread, now know that the State does not endorse Christianity nor does the law automatically side with Christian bullies. That’s a good thing. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t. Yet, you will award this girl from taking away a moral message while berating those who would erect a cross memorial on a fire station. > Most Americans find that distasteful. I could give a shit what most Americans think ;). > [@](#): > > Christians have exercised the right to ignore gays for many years, but now society is forcing the agenda on us. I can’t even read Green Lantern or Archie comics now without being forced to accept a homosexual message. Forced ? FORCED ? Why, that’s very much right to ignore territory, sir. Not only is no one putting a gun to your head to read these comics, but surely you can just avert your eyes from the “gay message”. Same as you were expecting the Cranston girl from “not seeing” the banner. No can do ? Then don’t blame her for wanting to tear down the banner, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=30)