# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/681 "2012-06-06T16:40:50Z")
Said a few page back, but it may bear repeating as some folks don’t seem to get it: Go ahead. Put a banner like this up in your home. In your church. In your private business. Buy a billboard and put it on there. Put a giant one behind a plane and fly it around the city. But sorry, you cannot put it on the wall of a government building that has been built and paid for by taxpayers of a variety of faiths and creeds, or taxpayers of no faith at all. Because you do not have the right to have others pay taxes for government buildings so that you can proselytize your particular brand of religion. This is the key point here **GEEPERS**. A government building paid for by EVERYONE, and to be used by EVERYONE cannot promote a religious message for exclusively for SOME. It does not matter if you are in the majority. (in fact, it seems that so many Christians are not “true Christians” according to you, I suspect you are in a small minority). This law benefits you **GEEPERS**. It prevents banners in the public school that say “There is no God. So go ahead and enjoy your life”. Whew! That would offend you, so good thing that’s not allowed! It prevents banners in the public school that say “Belief in Allah constitutes the very foundation of life. There is no deity except Allah. He is indivisible and absolutely transcendent.” That is not allowed. So you can breath a sigh of relief there, **GEEPERS**. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/682 "2012-06-06T17:17:22Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > If that’s true, then I’m declaring victory right now. Drinks are on me. [Infidels.org](http://Infidels.org) for one. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/683 "2012-06-06T17:29:52Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Point 2 - The Lord’s prayer was created by a Jew, delivered to a crowd of Jews, and recorded by Jews. Not exactly “specifically Christian” is it? > > … > > Lets have no more of this nonsense, please. I couldn’t have said it better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/684 "2012-06-06T17:34:12Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > [Infidels.org](http://Infidels.org) for one. Yes, that is definitely a thing that exists. Nobody has cited it as a source for the religious views of Constitutional authors or scholars or for judicial opinion, and as far as I know nobody here has ever mentioned it in discusions with you, but it does exist. Meanwhile, and not for the first time, you’re dealing with minutiae and not answering pertintent questions people are asking you about your opinion. > [@Marley23](#): > > Tell me this: if you bought the banner and hung it up in your home, what do you think would happen? Do you think the government would come and take it down? > [@leftfield6](#): > > Would you feel the same way if the group “that students no longer had access to on campus” were Muslim? > > Hindu? > > Druids? > > Wiccan? > [@Marley23](#): > > I have a better question: why did judges agree with [Jessica Ahlquist] that it was a violation of the Constitutional ban on establishment of religion? > […] > I don’t recall any blue laws in the Constitution. Can you point one out to me? > [@Twoflower](#): > > You said earlier that if the girl in the OP didn’t like the religious attitude at school, she was free to go somewhere else. Seems to me that this group is taking the same approach you espouse - they don’t want to follow campus rules, so they’re moving off campus. Why do you consider this a problem? > [@J\_Cubed](#): > > How is this banner, which uses specifically Christian wording, and directly replaced the Lord’s Prayer, not an establishment of a preferred religion, but when a private business prints a comic book with a gay character, you are forced to “accept a homosexual message”? Will you please address these? > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Only merely hurting future generations who may not be taught such basic morals at home. And I have to ask… I agree the message of the banner is good, but do you really think that a piece of cloth hanging on the wall is going to make anybody more moral if they’re parents are falling down on the job? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/685 "2012-06-06T17:36:20Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > [Infidels.org](http://Infidels.org) for one. Oddly enough, they are not averse to publishing [opposite viewpoints.](http://www.infidels.org/infidels/faq.html#two-sided) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/686 "2012-06-06T17:37:45Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > [Infidels.org](http://Infidels.org) for one. A quick search shows that you are the first person to mention that website on this forum in over a year. It does not seem to be an important source of information for anyone debating with you. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/687 "2012-06-06T17:38:45Z")
**GEEPERS** , should the school be free to put up a banner that says “There is no God. So go ahead and enjoy life.”? Would it be OK with you if the school put up a big banner that said "“Belief in Allah constitutes the very foundation of life. There is no deity except Allah. He is indivisible and absolutely transcendent.”? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/688 "2012-06-06T17:40:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And I have to ask… I agree the message of the banner is good, but do you really think that a piece of cloth hanging on the wall is going to make anybody more moral if their parents are falling down on the job? Well, the banner’s got god on it, and god’s magical, so there ! ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/689 "2012-06-06T17:47:18Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The problem is the 1st amendment keeps getting reinterpreted to fit secular agendas. No it doesn’t. The Supreme Court, whose official responsibility is to determine what the constitution says, settled this question [50 years ago.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale) Of course, the other thing that hasn’t changed is the endless stream of fallacious arguments from the religious right like the OP, claiming that it’s all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/690 "2012-06-06T18:00:06Z")
I’m not sure **GEEPERS** ’ arguments actually meet the stringent standards of fallacious. There still hope of course. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/691 "2012-06-06T18:08:57Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > [Infidels.org](http://Infidels.org) for one. Not one of Dylan’s better albums. Better than _Slow Train Coming_, I suppose, what with Sly Dunbar, Mick Taylor, and Robbie Shakespeare in the band, but that’s faint praise. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/692 "2012-06-06T19:15:14Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > You are incredibly ignorant about Christians. True Christians don’t make death threats and advocate violence. Of course they do, and have. As I already said, judging from history it’s the “True Christians” who run around bullying, terrorizing and killing people in the name of Christianity. That’s been the Christian norm for most of its history, and it’s how Christianity became a major religion in the first place. And it’s the aspect of Christianity you are supporting in this case. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Yes, let’s just make CHristianity illegal and totally rip up the Constitution huh? You know what’s really disgusting? Stopping Christians from ramming their delusions down the throats of everyone else isn’t making it illegal. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > By the way, most of us believe there is a God, and have strong reasons for our beliefs. You can call it a fairy tale all you want, but that won’t change reality. Except that it’s the believers who are denying reality. Nor does popularity make a delusion true. And the “strong reasons” are that most of them were taught it as children, and they really, really want to believe it. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Hate, violence, fear, anger are not fruits of the Spirit. They are fruits of the devil. They are the core values of mainstream Christianity. Eliminate them and you have an entirely different religion. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/693 "2012-06-06T19:18:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **GEEPERS** , should the school be free to put up a banner that says “There is no God. So go ahead and enjoy life.”? > > Would it be OK with you if the school put up a big banner that said "“Belief in Allah constitutes the very foundation of life. There is no deity except Allah. He is indivisible and absolutely transcendent.”? I’ve already answered these type of questions in previous replies. Seriously, if all you people can do is regurgitate the same arguments then I’m done here. I would simply ignore the banner. No different than when I see a billboard promoting Ba’hai faith on the road. It’s a message. No one is forcing me to agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/694 "2012-06-06T19:23:43Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I’ve already answered these type of questions in previous replies. Seriously, if all you people can do is regurgitate the same arguments then I’m done here. > > I would simply ignore the banner. No different than when I see a billboard promoting Ba’hai faith on the road. It’s a message. No one is forcing me to agree with it. You notice that the Ba’hai faith banner isn’t on a public building, right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/695 "2012-06-06T19:25:56Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I’ve already answered these type of questions in previous replies. Then it sounds like you have plenty of time for all the other questions you’ve overlooked. I collected several of them in post #684. There are probably others, but it’d be a start at least. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/696 "2012-06-06T19:29:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Of course they do, and have. As I already said, judging from history it’s the “True Christians” who run around bullying, terrorizing and killing people in the name of Christianity. That’s been the Christian norm for most of its history, and it’s how Christianity became a major religion in the first place. And it’s the aspect of Christianity you are supporting in this case. What a load of crock. There is nothing in the Bible that advocates spreading the gospel through violence. Please show it, or admit your ignorance. I suppose you think the Salvation Army is a evil organization as well? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Stopping Christians from ramming their delusions down the throats of everyone else isn’t making it illegal. > > Except that it’s the believers who are denying reality. Nor does popularity make a delusion true. And the “strong reasons” are that most of them were taught it as children, and they really, really want to believe it. > They are the core values of mainstream Christianity. Eliminate them and you have an entirely different religion. Christianity is a reality, not a delusion. You can belittle it all you want with your tongue, but it doesn’t change the fact that many people’s lives have been transformed for the better through faith in Jesus Christ. People have been saved, renewed, and rescued from suicide and the brink of despair. What can your non-belief, offer? NOTHING. You live, you consume, you die. The hostile, rude, and lack of respect that I’ve received here from the beginning certainly does little to support your fabrication that Christians are the evil ones, and atheists are wonderful loving people. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/697 "2012-06-06T19:32:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Then it sounds like you have plenty of time for all the other questions you’ve overlooked. I collected several of them in post #684. There are probably others, but it’d be a start at least. I am under no obligation to answer every single question here when you people bury me in a ridiculous amount of replies. Stop hitting the reply button every 30 seconds if you expect an answer. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/698 "2012-06-06T19:35:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You notice that the Ba’hai faith banner isn’t on a public building, right? Wouldn’t matter if it was or not. Physical location is meaningless. A law declaring an official religion is unconstitutional though. But I’m sure you’ll eventually get your way and all Christian messages must be removed from public view. Freedom FROM religion is apparently more important, right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/699 "2012-06-06T19:39:32Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I am under no obligation to answer every single question here when you people bury me in a ridiculous amount of replies. Stop hitting the reply button every 30 seconds if you expect an answer. You’re replying to say you don’t have time to reply. Why not just answer the questions instead? You’re under no obligation to answer _every_ question, but you spend a great deal of time changing the subject and avoiding questions, and you complain constantly that that you are being asked too many questions. What you fail to realize is that you are the cause of most of those problems: you are asked a ton of questions primarily because you keep changing the subject, which draws more questions (and of course introduces more and more errors) and because you duck so many direct questions. You spend more time changing the subject and complaining than you do developing an argument. If you stayed on topic and didn’t avoid questions you don’t like, you wouldn’t have that problem. So I don’t know what response you expect other than laughter. If you want to engage in a discussion on a discussion board, you should at least make an effort to answer people’s questions. If not, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/700 "2012-06-06T19:40:01Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > But I’m sure you’ll eventually get your way and all Christian messages must be removed from public view. Freedom FROM religion is apparently more important, right? Absolutely not. Some of the most beautiful art in the Western tradition is Christian, and I certainly don’t have a problem with Christian billboards. I just don’t think it should be on stuff that I pay for. That’s the concept you seem to be ignoring all down the line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=36)