# Another Example of Atheists Destroying Christian's Rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555 "2012-05-30T16:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/741 "2012-06-06T23:23:13Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > You get saved first, then become part of the body of Christ. You can’t receive spiritual gifts if you are actively and willingfully living in sin. > 1 Corinthians 12 However, not having received these gifts do not prevent one from being saved. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/742 "2012-06-06T23:24:33Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > I am a member of the Episcopal Church. Sort of the American branch of the Church of England. We have gay priests and bishops, for crying out loud. Which immediately puts you well outside of the mainstream of Christianity. Especially since I was speaking of Christianity throughout history, not just your particular splinter faction in the last few decades. > [@BwanaBob](#): > > ``` > And I take it you are not nor were ever one. > > ``` What makes you think that? I was raised to be a good Apocalypse believing, unbeliever hating, book burning Christian. The end of the world is coming any day now (and that’s a good thing), UFOs are piloted by demons, sex is evil, etc. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/743 "2012-06-06T23:25:44Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > The key words are “actively” and “willingly.” If you fuck your friend’s wife, and you feel sufficiently bad about it to let Jesus into your heart and “save” you, then you can go back to church. Once saved, you’re free to go back home and fuck your friend’s wife, because, got dayum does she have nice titties. Oops! Time to get saved again! > > A gay person can go to church as long as they pretend to be remorseful for all the gay sex they’ve been having, but only if they’re not actively involved in gay sex at the moment they walk in the door. Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/744 "2012-06-06T23:36:27Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > The key words are “actively” and “willingly.” If you fuck your friend’s wife, and you feel sufficiently bad about it to let Jesus into your heart and “save” you, then you can go back to church. Once saved, you’re free to go back home and fuck your friend’s wife, because, got dayum does she have nice titties. Oops! Time to get saved again! > > A gay person can go to church as long as they pretend to be remorseful for all the gay sex they’ve been having, but only if they’re not actively involved in gay sex at the moment they walk in the door. > [@dngnb8](#): > > Wrong. Elaborate, please. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/745 "2012-06-06T23:37:33Z")
> [@geepers](#): > > atheists must always get the last word in. last!!1! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/746 "2012-06-06T23:42:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > No, no, that’s the openly gay one. [This](http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/hal-greenlantern.jpg)is the totes straight one 😉 Christ, that’s gayer than a Maypole in spring time. > [@steronz](#): > > A gay person can go to church as long as they pretend to be remorseful for all the gay sex they’ve been having, but only if they’re not actively involved in gay sex at the moment they walk in the door. To be fair, that would also get you kicked out the grocery store too. **Der Trihs** , the Episcopal church is as main stream as you can get. It’s a branch of the freaking Church of England. Dude, don’t make it look like **GEEPERS** is a representative of all Christians. That’s not fair. **GEEPERS** , why are you ignoring the fact that non-atheists here are telling you the same damned thing? **Guinastasia** – general theist ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/747 "2012-06-06T23:44:08Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Do we have to have a religion in order to have a moral compass? No. You have to accept Christ as your Savior to get to Heaven though. > [@Chimera](#): > > On the contrary, Athiests accept the real world. At least those who really think it through. The real world is a different place to different people > [@](#): > > No god? That means that we are completely responsible for everything we do, or don’t do. We made this mess, we create our own problems, we create the illusion that we call The World. We cannot pray it away, we cannot absolve ourselves of responsibility by saying God (or Satan) did it. We cannot relieve ourselves of the duty to correct it by saying that it is in God’s hands or his will (and therefore we’re free to do fuck all nothing to fix anything). Neither can Christians who understand the Bible. > [@](#): > > The Hope is the realization that WE ALONE have the power to do both good and evil. That Justice and Mercy and Fairness do not come from outside, they do not exist in the Universe EXCEPT BY OUR HEARTS, MINDS AND HANDS. That to me is the real beauty of this world. That _ **WE** _ are the ones who dream, idealize and create Mercy and Justice. > > The hope and truth is that Humanity isn’t dependent on something higher to create or correct us, but that this power lies within us. > > And it always has. Im a Christian, and I dont believe any different then you. > [@Kobal2](#): > > _shrug_ > We are not in the business of “giving hope”. We are in the business of \*actually \*solving problems, treating illnesses and finding correct answers. If hope is given or found along the way, fine and dandy, but it’s really surplus to requirements. How is that different from me as a Christian? > [@](#): > > OTOH magical gesticulations, reciting hocus-pocus and inflicting tired sacharrine pablums on the bereaved and the afflicted under the pretext that “it will do nothing, but at least it will give you hope !” is worse than simply worthless: it’s quite insulting. Not to mention infantilizing. > > PS: The Truth shall make ye fret. Painting all Christians the color of extremist is the same as painting all Atheists like GEEPERS does. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This is just an example of an atheist being a (whiny) dick. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe, but the Christians didnt act any better in the article. Seems like the pot calling the kettle black (as it were) to me. (no offense intended) > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Renaming a Christmas tree a holiday tree is stupid. Being _offended_ by it is stupider still. It’s not as though a Christmas tree is some kind of sacred object; why should anyone give a shit what it’s called? I agree here. But we must acknowledge the Christmas tree starts with Christ. I work in a secondary educational institution, and while Kwanza is celebrated, we arent allowed to have anything that represents the Christ is Christmas > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I thought it was related to the yule log? Christmas trees are an old German custom, right? The reason Christmas is at the time it is, is because many people were already celebrating harvest and winter at that time. It was selected for convenience. Nobody knows the real date of Christs birth. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > This is another aspect of doctrine that makes no sense to me. People continue to sin after they accept Christ. Does the fact that they accept Christ mean they can do whatever they want now and are still forgiven because they believe the right thing? Not at all. But this is the fallacy that people who arent Christians use as a rebuttal. God knows if your trying, or if your lying. > [@](#): > > Of course not, and clearly not according to the words of JC. Is a loving act of compassion for another human being less loving and compassionatebecause someone happens to be a non Christian? > > and ftr; the history of Christianity is full of bad doctrine and beliefs, justified by interpretations of biblical passages, that have changed as society changed and grew up. > > This is one of those issues. Christianity will evolve and grow as people do. You dont have to be a a Christian to be a good person. You do have to be a Christian to go to Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/748 "2012-06-06T23:46:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Which is ironic in that Antiochan and Syrian Orthodox Christians have been addressing the Triune God of Christianity as “Allah” since long before Mohammed was born. You’re close! Search for “God” in [this Aramaic Biblical lexicon](http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/) and the first hit that turns up is lemma 904: _Ālah_. The identical phonemes as in Arabic _Allāh_, but with some differences in vowel and consonant length. As I make out from a little googling, the most usual form of the word for God in Aramaic is _Ālahā_. Still fairly close. The Aramaic/Syriac-speaking areas of the Fertile Crescent gradually switched to speaking Arabic beginning from their conquest by Islam in the years 633–637 (with spoken Aramaic surviving to the present in only a few spots). The Jews of Yathrib and Christians of Najrān in ancient Arabia would have actually spoken Arabic, though, and would have called God “Allāh” same as Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/749 "2012-06-06T23:46:47Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Elaborate, please. > [@dngnb8](#): > > Not at all. But this is the fallacy that people who arent Christians use as a rebuttal. God knows if your trying, or if your lying. In short, we dont ask for forgiveness and then go out and say ITS TIME TO SIN BAYBEEE! We are human, we arent perfect. We not only make mistakes, sometimes, we make the same mistake. If you think we just say words with the thought we fooled God, then you have no clue what forgiveness is. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/750 "2012-06-06T23:48:46Z")
Is GEEPERS a man or woman? I was just wondering how to picture him or her. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/751 "2012-06-06T23:50:27Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > The real world is a different place to different people No it isn’t. The world is what it is, regardless of your or my opinion about what it should be. > [@dngnb8](#): > > How is that different from me as a Christian? Christians provide false hope, and push “solutions” that can’t work. > [@dngnb8](#): > > I agree here. But we must acknowledge the Christmas tree starts with Christ. As has already been covered, no it doesn’t. It was originally a pagan tradition. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Is GEEPERS a man or woman? I was just wondering how to picture him or her. As a Nazgûl; that solves the gender problem. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/752 "2012-06-06T23:53:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No it isn’t. The world is what it is, regardless of your or my opinion about what it should be. perception view what it is differently > [@](#): > > Christians provide false hope, and push “solutions” that can’t work. All do? Really? You can cite how all Christians act the same? Seriously. Broad Brushing Christians is as wrong as Broad Brushing Atheists. > [@](#): > > As has already been covered, no it doesn’t. It was originally a pagan tradition. Yes, the time of Celebration was pagan. I believe it was the Catholic Church who decided to seize upon that time to celebrate the Christmas we know today. (the Birth of Christ) ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/753 "2012-06-06T23:54:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As a Nazgûl; that solves the gender problem. I guess tolerance isnt an atheist quality… Oh wait, see what I did thar? _insert broad brush image here_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/754 "2012-06-06T23:56:56Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Not necessarily true. Ive seen Yahoo’s on kids who wore shirts with proclamations and were told to cover or remove the shirt because they could be offensive to others. This has even spread to kids who wore the US Flag symbol on their shirts. Yes, the courts have recognized that schools have the authority to set dress codes. I agree and I think that was discussed earlier. But there would no Constitutional issue with students making and wearing the shirts on their own. It would not be construed as an establishment of religion by the school, and as long as the administrators did not object, there wouldn’t be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/755 "2012-06-06T23:58:21Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > All do? Since there is no God, no Heaven, no Hell, and no souls yes; all do. Or as close to “all” as doesn’t matter. > [@dngnb8](#): > > I guess tolerance isnt an atheist quality… Oh wait, see what I did thar? > > _insert broad brush image here_ Let’s see; either I was making a joke, or I actually believe that **GEEPERS** is a Ringwraith…which is more likely? ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/756 "2012-06-06T23:59:38Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > You dont have to be a a Christian to be a good person. You do have to be a Christian to go to Heaven. How unfortunate for the hundreds of billions of good non-Christians who have lived throughout history and prehistory. Who created this policy? Was it decided by a majority vote, or by tyrannical decree? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/757 "2012-06-07T00:00:31Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > . . . I have known some really wonderful Christians, people who took the example of Jesus and let their love for him manifest through attempting to follow his example - love thy neighbor, judge not, feed the hungry, and so on. I have also always admired the great works of art inspired by Christian theology. This is worth repeating. The faith is incredibly broad; the mansion is of many houses. I used to be a really nasty atheist. I was the kind of guy who did go out and tear down banners. I chopped down a hilltop cross once. (I thought it was on public property; stupid me, it wasn’t!) A good, patient, faithful, and gentle Christian took the effort (on a BBS discussion board much like this one) to talk with me. He listened, and, when he disagreed, he did so with respect. He helped me get through my anger. He taught virtue by example. I’m still an atheist…but it was a Christian who helped me to stop being a hate-filled atheist. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, I’ve known a lot more Christians that were interested in passing judgement, rubbing their religion in my face, and being smarmy about how they were ‘saved’ and I wasn’t. Because of people like them, and the bad aftertaste that dealing with them left in my mouth, Christianity was not a path that I considered. Alas, yes. It’s a sad truth, but one Fred Phelps cancels out a couple of dozen good guys. (And, yes, one M.M. O’Hair cancels out a couple of dozen good atheists.) It’s human nature to give over-much emphasis to negativity. We don’t remember the dozens and dozens of good hamburgers we’ve eaten…but give us one overcooked hockey-puck burger, and we will never go back to any restaurant in the entire chain. We are all ambassadors. When we act like jerks, we hurt everyone who shares our beliefs. We have been in the company of a really bad ambassador; but there are good ones too. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/758 "2012-06-07T00:09:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Is GEEPERS a man or woman? I was just wondering how to picture him or her. An angry little man. ETA: that’s an educated guess. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/759 "2012-06-07T00:15:25Z")
In a thread filled with angry little men, apparently. (If you really want to walk that road) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555/760 "2012-06-07T00:19:30Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > How is that different from me as a Christian? Don’t know. I don’t know you. \*\*GEEPERS \*\*OTOH is (or at least seems very much to be) someone who believes that as long as the Christian myth gives people “hope”, and as long as some people’s life can be turned around by that myth ; then that myth is a good thing that should be preserved at all costs, or at least at most costs. That, in short, the end justify the means. I think that’s a load of bollocks, both on principle and in effect. > [@](#): > > You dont have to be a a Christian to be a good person. You do have to be a Christian to go to Heaven. Not according to the Jews. Oh, sure, they’ll get to a \*better \*one, being the chosen people and observing all 613 rules and whatnot. But as long as you’re more or less decent peoples, well, god’ll have a couch fixed up for you somewhere in the basement of hirs golden pad. Personally, my heavily-weighted-on-one-side agnosticism is fairly simple: if there’s an omniscient creator god after all, he must have made me the way I am, rational brain, conscience and all. Wouldn’t be decent of him to both have given me that wonderful analytical tool, and expect me not to use it. Wouldn’t be decent to have expected me to believe in all this bullshit without giving me any reason to whatsoever. Would be even shittier to punish me for using it. But if he \*is \*that kind of a god, well, fuck him then. Didn’t want his paradise no how and I’ll spit in the smug prick’s face, and you can tell him I said so. The concept of eternal life gives me the creeps, anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-atheists-destroying-christians-rights/623555.md?page=39)