# Another Example of the Dangerous Idiocy of Alternative Medicine Providers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473 "2013-07-14T14:41:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/1 "2013-07-14T14:41:23Z")
Following on from [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696117) thread, in which some silly foodie idiot deliberately misrepresented a study from Washington University to dupe people into swapping their chemotherapy for goji berries and hope, regardless of what sort and what stage of cancer they have, I bring you this little gem: The Natural Guide to Quitting Smoking. Read the link below: Have a good look at the information presented. There is some rather pertinent information missing. Can you spot it? If you don’t fancy trying, that’s fine. Just click the spoiler box below for a full explanation. As a hint, I’ll tell you that the missing information concerns drug interaction, and its omission could potentially get a not inconsiderable number of people killed. They have basically completely neglected to mention that mixing St. John’s Wort with common anti-depressants and certain over the counter cough mixtures can lead to the potentially lethal serotonin syndrome. Not to mention that SJW has the power to at least partially neutralise the potent ‘rescue’ heart medicine Digoxin, HIV drugs, and Warfarin. From here [Possible Interactions With St. John’s Wort](http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb-interaction/possible-interactions-with-st-johns-wort) The reason I’m being all coy and putting my objection in a spoiler box is that I want to try and find out the extent to which this potentially deadly omission is common knowledge. Way I see it, if an ordinary guy like me is aware of it, then a bunch of self-proclaimed herbalists should be _twice_ as aware of it, right? Tell me, am I being over critical, or have they made an unforgivable omission? P.S. - I’ve e-mailed them my concerns. But they do have a comment box underneath the article if anybody should choose to make their views known. I hope this isn’t viewed as ‘Soliciting’ because it really could save a life. I would comment myself, but for some reason every time I try my browser freezes up and it doesn’t work. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/2 "2013-07-14T14:43:21Z")
Where is the first link you referred to? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/3 "2013-07-14T14:47:49Z")
Shit. My apologies. The link is: [http://www.undergroundhealth.com/quit-smoking-naturally/#respond](http://www.undergroundhealth.com/quit-smoking-naturally/#respond) If a mod could see fit to paste this into my OP I would be enormously grateful. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/4 "2013-07-14T20:30:36Z")
It has always amused me that you can sell all kinds of worthless crap (like homeopathic “medicines”); as long as you include on it that disclaimer :“Not intended to diagnose or treat any disease or medical condition”. Really? I have just spent $19.00 on a box of worthless sugar pills? Why have an FDA if you can get away with this? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/5 "2013-07-14T20:38:27Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Why have an FDA if you can get away with this? So that people who are convinced traditional medicine is profit-driven evil intended to keep people sick will have someone to hate on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/6 "2013-07-14T21:51:36Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Shit. My apologies. The link is: > > [http://www.undergroundhealth.com/quit-smoking-naturally/#respond](http://www.undergroundhealth.com/quit-smoking-naturally/#respond) > > If a mod could see fit to paste this into my OP I would be enormously grateful. Cheers. It mentions cayenne pepper as something that can help you quit smoking, but does not specify how you take it. Are you supposed to smoke it? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/7 "2013-07-15T00:00:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Cayenne Pepper > … > Ginger > … > Peppermint The first two would be the start of a good lunch, but it needs soy sauce, rice, and garlic. The peppermint is to counteract the garlic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/8 "2013-07-15T01:39:00Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The peppermint is to counteract the garlic. What counteracts the vomiting? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/9 "2013-07-15T01:43:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What counteracts the vomiting? Smoking a cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/10 "2013-07-15T01:43:53Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The first two would be the start of a good lunch, but it needs soy sauce, rice, and garlic. The peppermint is to counteract the garlic. Why would you want to counteract the garlic? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/11 "2013-07-15T03:26:27Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Why would you want to counteract the garlic? Well, you just might have to come within 10 feet of another person sometime today. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/12 "2013-07-15T05:21:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, you just might have to come within 10 feet of another person sometime today. > > Or not. Their problem. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/13 "2013-07-15T07:58:03Z")
Hmm…strange. Was able to leave a comment this morning no problem. Hopefully they’ll see sense and take the article down or edit it. Not holding out much hope, though. I see one perspicacious doper spotted the same omission I did and commented as well. Good stuff 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/14 "2013-07-15T08:04:20Z")
Incidentally, since putting the omission in a spoiler box was, in retrospect, a stupid idea, I’ll just come right out and say it. The sin of the article was recommending St. John’s Wort without giving any indication that it reacts violently with lots of popoular prescription medicines. For example, if you take St. John’s Wort along with any bog standard SSRI, the two together could cause the potentially lethal [Serotonin Syndrome](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_Syndrome). The same is true if you take it with a cough medicine called Dextromethorphan. Also, if you take it with the popular ‘rescue’ heart medication Digoxin, you might find that the Digoxin doesn’t work so well when you need it. Now, is it just me, or should a bunch of self-proclaimed “herbalists” have been aware of that? And am I overreacting, or is it the height of irresponsibility to recommend St. John’s Wort as a smoking cessation aid (a use for which there is seemingly no evidence that it is effective) without mentioning all these potentially very, very dangerous interactions? Silly foodies pretending to be doctors. Recipe for disaster. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/15 "2013-07-15T10:20:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It has always amused me that you can sell all kinds of worthless crap (like homeopathic “medicines”); as long as you include on it that disclaimer :“Not intended to diagnose or treat any disease or medical condition”. > Really? I have just spent $19.00 on a box of worthless sugar pills? > Why have an FDA if you can get away with this? The FDA has had their hands tied by Congress. You can thank Orrin Hatch for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/16 "2013-07-15T14:32:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It has always amused me that you can sell all kinds of worthless crap (like homeopathic “medicines”); as long as you include on it that disclaimer :“Not intended to diagnose or treat any disease or medical condition”. > Really? I have just spent $19.00 on a box of worthless sugar pills? > Why have an FDA if you can get away with this? It’s referred to as the “Quack Miranda,” and protects them from all sorts of shit. I love how crunchy-granola alternative types always freak out about “Big Pharma,” but are totally supportive and non-critical of Big Placebo. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/17 "2013-07-15T14:46:10Z")
One good thing about alt med sites recommending ineffective treatments for smoking cessation is that they’re spending less time pushing ineffective remedies for serious conditions like cancer. I note with mild amusement that they’re promoting lobelia as a smoking cessation remedy, stating that “having the shakes from nicotine withdrawals is no fun at all”. Apparently they think that [throwing up from lobelia toxicity](http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/lobelia#ixzz2Z7m2noLT) is more fun. \*"An active ingredient in the lobelia plant, lobeline, was thought to be similar to nicotine in its effect on the body. For this reason, lobeline was once used as a nicotine substitute in many antismoking products and preparations designed to break the smoking habit. In 1993, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) prohibited the sale of smoking products containing lobeline. The FDA reported that such products were not effective in helping people quit or reduce smoking. Researchers now think that lobeline may actually reduce the effects of nicotine in the body, particularly the release of dopamine. Dopamine is a brain chemical that plays a number of important roles in the brain. It is also involved in drug addiction, so researchers think that lobeline may have some potential in treating addiction. So far, however, there have been no studies to determine whether lobeline is effective. Lobelia is a potentially toxic herb. It can be safely used in small doses (particularly homeopathic doses), but moderate-to-large doses may cause side effects ranging from dry mouth and nausea to convulsions and even coma (see “Precautions” section). You should use lobelia only under the supervision of your health care provider."\* For added humor, note that the UM citation on lobelia says it canbe safely used in homeopathic doses. I would think so, seeing that common homeopathic doses (i.e. diluted to the point there are no molecules of the supposed active substance still in solution) are identical to water. > [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Was able to leave a comment this morning no problem. Hopefully they’ll see sense and take the article down or edit it. I’m certain they are rushing to acknowledge their errors as we speak. :dubious: > [@Kolga](#): > > It’s referred to as the “Quack Miranda,” and protects them from all sorts of shit. Or at least they believe so. Kind of like thinking that garlic keeps the vampires away. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/18 "2013-07-16T12:36:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m certain they are rushing to acknowledge their errors as we speak. :dubious: Funnily enough, I visited the site today and I can’t see my own comments unless I’m logged into Facebook. Is that normal? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/19 "2013-07-16T16:39:18Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Now, is it just me, or should a bunch of self-proclaimed “herbalists” have been aware of that? Then again, if you were listening to “herbalists,” would you even be TAKING those other products of Evil Western Medicine at all? ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473/20 "2013-07-16T20:09:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > For added humor, note that the UM citation on lobelia says it canbe safely used in homeopathic doses. I would think so, seeing that common homeopathic doses (i.e. diluted to the point there are no molecules of the supposed active substance still in solution) are identical to water. Hey, homeopathic medicines are of the safest out there. After all, even strychnine and aresenic are safe at homeopathic doses. My daughter-in-law, who’s a nurse and should know better, gave her daughter a homeopathic “soothing” medication until she was about three because “it couldn’t hurt.” Well, I guess she was right, at that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-example-of-the-dangerous-idiocy-of-alternative-medicine-providers/663473.md?page=2)