# Another filmed police encounter (Hammond, IN) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645 "2014-10-07T13:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/201 "2014-10-07T20:12:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > She failed to wear a seatbelt. She did so in a public place Do you often wear seatbelts in private places? > [@Smapti](#): > > she did so without expressing any remorse or guilt at the nature of the act. Do you feel ashamed when you are not wearing seatbelts? In case it’s not obvious, your objections to this are still more bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/202 "2014-10-07T20:12:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I know of no law that obligates a parent to commit suicide by attempting to save the life of a child when they have no confidence that they are able to do so safely. Fucking sniveling coward. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/203 "2014-10-07T20:15:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do you often wear seatbelts in private places? I can’t say that the need to do so has ever arisen. > [@](#): > > Do you feel ashamed when you are not wearing seatbelts? Yes, as should any sensible person who is in a moving vehicle equipped with seatbelts and which is travelling along a public thoroughfare. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/204 "2014-10-07T20:17:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Fucking sniveling coward. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? Usually I stand in front of it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/205 "2014-10-07T20:19:31Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What it takes is everyone working together, and self control. > I think there is (non-violent detention), depending on how you define “non-violently”. I’m thinking civil disobedience where non-violent protesters are arrested and people who turn themselves in. Ok, you think it, so go ahead and describe it. There is no way to detain someone without force or threat of force. It cannot be done. And force or the threat of force is “violence”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/206 "2014-10-07T20:21:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Ok, you think it, so go ahead and describe it. There is no way to detain someone without force or threat of force. It cannot be done. And force or the threat of force is “violence”. So if any display of police authority is inherently a threat of violence, then in what universe does it ever make sense to respond to such a display antagonistically? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/207 "2014-10-07T20:26:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Ok, you think it, so go ahead and describe it. There is no way to detain someone without force or threat of force. It cannot be done. And force or the threat of force is “violence”. I did describe it. Like I said, it depends how you define “non-violent”. If someone protests by sitting and blocking an ingress/egress point and they are cited for trespassing, the person can either move of their own volition or they can be detained and moved. The act can involve simply picking the person up and moving them. Personally I agree this is using force, but I would say this qualifies as non-violent. Alternatively, let’s say police believe you to be a suspect in a crime. They approach you on foot and ask you various probing questions. You are uncomfortable, so you ask, “Am I free to go?”. The officer says, “No. I’m investigating crime xyz and you are being detained because your appearance matches the description I was given.” He continues to ask questions and through your answers determines that you are not the person he is looking for. No physical contact was ever made. In that case you were detained, but I would say this is also non-violent though you were forced to remain in a place you did not wish to answer the questions. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/208 "2014-10-07T20:31:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Usually I stand in front of it. Does it recoil in disgust after you sneak up on it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/209 "2014-10-07T20:33:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I can’t say that the need to do so has ever arisen. Exactly. So saying she did this “in public” doesn’t mean anything because it’s a given that she was in public. She was driving on the street, which is the only place seatbelt laws are relevant or enforced. There is no such thing as flagrantly not wearing a seatbelt. It’s like saying I flagrantly carried an umbrella in public the other day. That’s almost the only place you can carry an umbrella in a city since you don’t need them indoors, and there’s no way to flagrantly or un-flagrantly take that action. You just do it. You’re also in no position to comment on her mental state because you don’t know if she was apologetic or not. > [@](#): > > Yes, as should any sensible person who is in a moving vehicle equipped with seatbelts and which is travelling along a public thoroughfare. And good for you. Of course you also don’t know how the driver felt about this. We don’t see anything until after she’s already called 911 because the police pointed guns at her family. By then she’s more concerned about that than she is about the seatbelt. I was going to say even you could probably understand that, but based on what you’re saying about your family, maybe you couldn’t. And again, there are tons of extra words in here. There’s little need to have your seatbelt on in a non-moving car, although apparently cops in Hammond will give you a ticket for it if they get mad at you. In fact that makes it tough to get out of the car. And are you trying to sound like a barrister or a 19th century law clerk? Why say “public thoroughfare” when you mean “road?” This doesn’t make you sound smarter - not that anything else would. It just makes you sound pompous, and as a champion of Law and Order brutality against the unarmed, you really don’t need to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/210 "2014-10-07T20:33:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Does it recoil in disgust after you sneak up on it? Why would it? It’s a piece of glass and is not ambulatory. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/211 "2014-10-07T20:33:59Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Sure. But see above. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that 100% of American drivers have committed multiple moving violations. Calling all those people lawbreakers or criminals is meaningless if you’re describing everyone, and then making judgment calls based on that classification. > [@Smapti](#): > > This is possibly the case. It is not feasible in our world to effectively police every single moving violation that occurs. This does not make those violations that go unnoticed any less serious. Nor does it make them more serious. One of the parts of my post you decided to not respond to was that these violations are, in the scheme of things, individually, fairly unimportant. > [@Eonwe](#): > > It takes one neglected right turn signal, one unnoticed burnt light, one stop beyond the limit-line/edge of the cross-walk to commit a traffic crime. And, once you’ve committed a crime, you’re a criminal. I guess. > [@Smapti](#): > > Correct. So what then? We are all criminals, and therefore we all get what we deserve from the cops because we’re all bad guys? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/212 "2014-10-07T20:37:23Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Nor does it make them more serious. One of the parts of my post you decided to not respond to was that these violations are, in the scheme of things, individually, fairly unimportant. And yet, they clearly possess _some_ level of importance, or else they would not be laws in the first place. > [@](#): > > So what then? We are all criminals, and therefore we all get what we deserve from the cops because we’re all bad guys? Possibly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/213 "2014-10-07T20:40:01Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > So what then? We are all criminals, and therefore we all get what we deserve from the cops because we’re all bad guys? > [@Smapti](#): > > Possibly. The Original Sin theory of policing! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/214 "2014-10-07T20:40:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why would it? It’s a piece of glass and is not ambulatory. More’s the pitty, as you seem to lack the ability to reflect on your own deep moral failures. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/215 "2014-10-07T20:46:35Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/216 "2014-10-07T20:48:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > More’s the pitty, as you seem to lack the ability to reflect on your own deep moral failures. Yep. Considering what he’s said about slavery, government-run ethnic genocide, parenting, and many other topics, **Smapti** is probably the most dangerous Doper that could be someone’s neighbor. Just an awful, awful person, and if he truly acts in the way he posts, a danger to society and his fellow humans. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/217 "2014-10-07T20:52:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > She failed to wear a seatbelt. She did so in a public place where she had no expectation of privacy as to the nature of the crime she was committing, she made no effort to conceal the fact of her crime, and she did so without expressing any remorse or guilt at the nature of the act. > > She openly and flagrantly failed to wear a seatbelt. Listen up, fucktard: Not wearing a seat belt is a minor traffic infraction with a piddly fine of $25 in the state of Indiana, so stop with the melodrama over her having committed a “crime.” For fuck’s sake, get a grip, man. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/218 "2014-10-07T20:52:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So if any display of police authority is inherently a threat of violence, then in what universe does it ever make sense to respond to such a display antagonistically? IS that what I said? Because I don’t remember saying that. Maybe you could quote me saying it, ya know, to refresh my memory. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/219 "2014-10-07T20:53:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Fucking sniveling coward. How do you even look at yourself in the mirror? With a sideways, fearful glance, followed by a sprint to the nearest closet, where he cowers behind the door until the bad man in the mirror leaves. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/220 "2014-10-07T20:53:20Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Listen up, fucktard: Not wearing a seat belt is a minor traffic infraction with a piddly fine of $25 in the state of Indiana, so stop with the melodrama over her having committed a “crime.” For fuck’s sake, get a grip, man. Which just makes the behavior of the passengers all the more incomprehensible. Is having a window broken and getting Tased worth it to try and evade a $25 fine? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=12)