# Another filmed police encounter (Hammond, IN) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645 "2014-10-07T13:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/221 "2014-10-07T20:54:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > IS that what I said? Because I don’t remember saying that. Maybe you could quote me saying it, ya know, to refresh my memory. If you insist; > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > There is no way to detain someone without force or threat of force. It cannot be done. And force or the threat of force is “violence”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/222 "2014-10-07T20:55:22Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > With a sideways, fearful glance, followed by a sprint to the nearest closet, where he cowers behind the door until the bad man in the mirror leaves. What bad man? The only person I ever see in the mirror is myself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/223 "2014-10-07T20:55:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yep. Considering what he’s said about slavery, government-run ethnic genocide, parenting, and many other topics, **Smapti** is probably the most dangerous Doper that could be someone’s neighbor. Just an awful, awful person, and if he truly acts in the way he posts, a danger to society and his fellow humans. Why? The man is a gigantic coward who would never harm anybody. He’s just desperate to stay on the good side of people in power and he gets terrified whenever a fellow sheep steps away from the herd. And he’s got some odd turn-ons, but we shouldn’t judge him for that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/224 "2014-10-07T20:56:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which just makes the behavior of the passengers all the more incomprehensible. Is having a window broken and getting Tased worth it to try and evade a $25 fine? Nobody is evading a fine, as the driver had already been ticketed and they could have given him a ticket through the window. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/225 "2014-10-07T20:57:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nobody is evading a fine, as the driver had already been ticketed and they could have given him a ticket through the window. Then their refusal to cooperate makes even _less_ sense, as there was, by your own insistence, absolutely no benefit to their doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/226 "2014-10-07T20:59:03Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I did describe it. Like I said, it depends how you define “non-violent”. If someone protests by sitting and blocking an ingress/egress point and they are cited for trespassing, the person can either move of their own volition or they can be detained and moved. The act can involve simply picking the person up and moving them. Personally I agree this is using force, but I would say this qualifies as non-violent. > > Alternatively, let’s say police believe you to be a suspect in a crime. They approach you on foot and ask you various probing questions. You are uncomfortable, so you ask, “Am I free to go?”. The officer says, “No. I’m investigating crime xyz and you are being detained because your appearance matches the description I was given.” He continues to ask questions and through your answers determines that you are not the person he is looking for. No physical contact was ever made. In that case you were detained, but I would say this is also non-violent though you were forced to remain in a place you did not wish to answer the questions. Sure, if you’d like to redefine a word to not mean what it means, then yeah, it would mean something different. However, violence is directly related to force, therefore, any application of force is violent. Since we legally disallow the threat of force as well as the actual application of force, generally, in our society, it follows that a threat of force is also violent. Nothing you wrote there contradicts me unless we accept your new definition for “violence”. I see no compelling or even vaguely persuasive argument for why I should accept your new definition. Do you have some potentially compelling or pesuasive arguments in support of your desired new definition? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/227 "2014-10-07T20:59:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why? The man is a gigantic coward who would never harm anybody. He’s just desperate to stay on the good side of people in power and he gets terrified whenever a fellow sheep steps away from the herd. And he’s got some odd turn-ons, but we shouldn’t judge him for that. If the shit ever hits the fan, **Smapti** will gladly turn in anyone in to whatever authority happens to be rounding people up. He could never be trusted by anyone, even his own family, to risk himself in any way if something went wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/228 "2014-10-07T21:01:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which just makes the behavior of the passengers all the more incomprehensible. Is having a window broken and getting Tased worth it to try and evade a $25 fine? Is that what someone was trying to do? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/229 "2014-10-07T21:01:41Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Listen up, fucktard: Not wearing a seat belt is a minor traffic infraction with a piddly fine of $25 in the state of Indiana, so stop with the melodrama over her having committed a “crime.” For fuck’s sake, get a grip, man. Yeah, I’m loving the dramatic language. “Public thoroughfare”. “Remorse and guilt”. For a fucking seatbelt violation. Priceless. That’s some Class A trolling there. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/230 "2014-10-07T21:02:50Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You’ve built a **viscous** , fucked up police culture America. I don’t think the shituation has much to do with fluid mechanics, TBH. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/231 "2014-10-07T21:03:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you insist; Hmmmm. I’m sorry, but I don’t see that I wrote anything like what you said I wrote. I only spoke of detaining someone, not “any display of police authority”. I’m afraid you’ve got me confused with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/232 "2014-10-07T21:06:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then their refusal to cooperate makes even _less_ sense, as there was, by your own insistence, absolutely no benefit to their doing so. Make up your mind, if you’re capable of holding an opinion other than “Must respect the authorities so they won’t hurt me.” Either they were behaving with intent to evade a fine (which they plainly were not), or they were being irrational (again, not really). The reality is that they were afraid of these cops after being threatened. It’s ironic that you can’t relate to this since fear of cops seems to be the only emotion you can express. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/233 "2014-10-07T21:12:00Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yeah, I’m loving the dramatic language. “Public thoroughfare”. “Remorse and guilt”. For a fucking seatbelt violation. Priceless. > > That’s some Class A trolling there. Class A? It’s a tour de force. I applaud him for a remarkable performance. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/234 "2014-10-07T21:14:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Either they were behaving with intent to evade a fine (which they plainly were not), or they were being irrational (again, not really). Either their behavior was sane or insane. There is no other option. > [@](#): > > The reality is that they were afraid of these cops after being threatened. So “insane”, then. > [@](#): > > It’s ironic that you can’t relate to this since fear of cops seems to be the only emotion you can express. Why would I possibly fear the cops? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/235 "2014-10-07T21:16:24Z")
I’m loving the Smapti show. He’s pretty damn good at coming up with new shit, spins on the old shit, or respining other people’s shit that you folks have to keep beating down. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/236 "2014-10-07T21:16:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The thing you have to understand is that last year, 50% of all traffic stops quickly escalated into a lethal shootout. I mean, I don’t have statistics to back that up, but it might be true. Why else would so many cops be treating these kinds of routine encounters like visits to Fallujah? Its the Pit, but for numbers: [http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2013/october/latest-law-enforcement-officers-killed-and-assaulted-report-released/latest-law-enforcement-officers-killed-and-assaulted-report-released](http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2013/october/latest-law-enforcement-officers-killed-and-assaulted-report-released/latest-law-enforcement-officers-killed-and-assaulted-report-released) 48 officers died in 2012 on duty. Or we can go academic: [http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal%20Procedure%20in%20American%20Society/OfficersAssaulted.pdf](http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal%20Procedure%20in%20American%20Society/OfficersAssaulted.pdf) > [@](#): > > Low range: On average, over a ten-year period, the risk of assault to a police officer during a traffic encounter was one in 10,256 stops. > Mid range: On average, over a ten-year period, the risk of homicide to a police officer during a traffic encounter was one in 13.4 million stops. > High-end: On average, over a ten-year period, the risk of assault to a police officer during a traffic encounter was one in 30,768 stops. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/237 "2014-10-07T21:17:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Hmmmm. I’m sorry, but I don’t see that I wrote anything like what you said I wrote. I only spoke of detaining someone, not “any display of police authority”. > > I’m afraid you’ve got me confused with someone else. So detaining someone is _not_ a display of authority? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/238 "2014-10-07T21:18:03Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yeah, I’m loving the dramatic language. “Public thoroughfare”. “Remorse and guilt”. For a fucking seatbelt violation. Priceless. So do you oppose seatbelt laws, or do you only oppose the _enforcement_ of seatbelt laws? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/239 "2014-10-07T21:20:01Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’m loving the Smapti show. > > He’s pretty damn good at coming up with new shit, spins on the old shit, or respining other people’s shit that you folks have to keep beating down. I’m going to disagree there. He’s pretty going much straight from the **Starving Artist** playbook of “post the same thing over and over as if the entire rest of the thread vanishes with each new post.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/240 "2014-10-07T21:21:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Either their behavior was sane or insane. There is no other option. Correct. But those weren’t the options you presented. You came up with “insane” and “dishonest.” > [@](#): > > So “insane”, then. I think pointing guns at a car full of children is insane. > [@](#): > > Why would I possibly fear the cops? Because according to your descriptions, they are insane despots who will resort to violence at the tiniest accidental provocation or sign of disrespect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=13)