# Another filmed police encounter (Hammond, IN) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645 "2014-10-07T13:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/301 "2014-10-08T11:45:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They were rowdy and noncompliant, and failed to sufficiently explain their actions to the officers. Damn uppity neegras; Whachu gonna do, eh? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/302 "2014-10-08T11:50:04Z")
Remember the “Beer Summit,” when Obama was new on the job and thought he had spare time for that kind of bullshit? Basically, a cop went to a man’s house after a burglary had been called in, and verified that the owner had arrived home to find his front door jammed, then went in through the back. The owner believed his being Black was the basis for suspicion (and maybe even was thinking about the magna Carta and the Bill of Rights) and groused at the cop. All that aside, bottom line: the cop had verified that a man was in his own home, minding his own business. But the cop lured the owner outside, so he could arrest him for his grousing, as disturbing the peace. During the White House meeting, the cop sat like a steaming turd, admitting no error; as if Showing Them Who’s Boss is something and Oppression Under Color of Office is nothing. It’s like the entire USA is a young woman, and the cops are her asshole boyfriend, unwilling to ever own a mistake or make amends, and doubling down when called on his shit. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/303 "2014-10-08T12:41:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Good. I’m curious why they asked the passenger for any information at all. I also wonder why they demanded he get out of the car. Jesus H. Christ!! Were you born yesterday? The video tells you everything you need to know. He was black. He was male. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/304 "2014-10-08T12:48:35Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > That example is a little different from past police threads as it is AFAIK typical NYC cop behavior. If you resist arrest you get pounded. The cops apparently believe that such practice gives them better street cred as a group. > > Admittedly my cite is weak. I read a Village Voice piece about a rookie cop who chased a perp and collared him. The rookie cop was injured along the way – scruffed up (nothing like a visit to the hospital). His fellow cops let him know he was being a dick in their opinion: they expected the perp to sustain injuries under such circumstances. This was from the 1980s. > > Anyway, ubiquitous recording devices may require a shift in police practice. If this is true, it makes the NYPD seem like just another gang. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/305 "2014-10-08T13:06:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because they aimed guns at a man when he reached for a ticket they asked him to produce. They must’ve thought he was one of those cop killers who drives around with his kids in the car. I don’t know what he had to get upset about! You know, when I read these kind of stories; these kinds of threads, I often have somewhat mixed feelings. I think that people are too quick to judge police officers sometimes, but I also think police officers are all too often too quick to assume that peaceful citizens are violent criminals. In this case, without knowing the exact details other than what I’ve watched and read from web stuff linked in this thread, I do believe that the police were not acting way out of place by drawing their weapons if a man reached into a gym bag while seated in a car. IMHO, it is fair for cops to view that as a potential threat. The dude in the car might have been more careful about that–giving them warning about what he intended to do. But we didn’t see that on the video. At the time the video starts, the officers had apparently holstered their weapons. OK so good so far. Things apparently has simmered down a bit. But the police officers’ actions once the video starts seem harsh, reactionary, and unnecessary. I guess what I’m saying is–I can see some of these encounters from the police point of view. IOW, those guys are involved in risky shit during a traffic stop and they just want to get their sweet ass home when their shift is over. But more and more, with video cameras everywhere these days, I’m often more sympathetic to the citizens rather than the cops. A lot of police behavior that we have video evidence of lately has seemed to me to be inexcusable. Someone needs to teach some of the officers how to police. Teach them that it is about “serve and protect” not “hassle and abuse”. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/306 "2014-10-08T13:07:30Z")
Well, in other times and places NYPD would shoot you 28 times first and ask questions later. Does make stop-and-frisk look reasonable and cultivated by contrast, though. > [@PaulParkhead](#): > > In her case she provided ID and the cops yelled at her because it was a state ID, not a DL. I don’t mean “drew their guns and threatened her” or anything, they just seemed upset that she didn’t have a DL. When she pointed out, with some irritation, that people with epilepsy are often denied licenses because of their condition, the cop denied that this was true. OK now that’s just the cop pulling a Don’t You Mouth Back At Me in annoyance when faced with something that’s _not what he wanted_, but \*\*\*was \*\*\*irrefutably _compliance_. They may have wanted to run a DL check to see if she had vehicular outstandings. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/307 "2014-10-08T13:08:08Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Jesus H. Christ!! Were you born yesterday? I’m hoping this is sarcasm. Otherwise we have a serious communication breakdown here. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/308 "2014-10-08T13:28:20Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > It is common for people to be puzzled when they think about the benefits and costs of the actions taken by the passenger in this incident, or say by Daniele Watts in hers. What the cops ask seems not so unreasonable, and the costs of not immediately complying are very large for those involved. Thus the public explains to themselves the actions of the non-cooperators by saying they were irrational: uppity, crazy, on drugs, venal, or in general and deserving of their abuse. > > We really should be grateful to those who produce the Public Good of civil disobedience / non-cooperation with unreasonable orders from police. But in the context of the situation it still makes little sense. Put yourself in the passenger’s shoes. My girlfriend’s mother is dieing and we have to get to the hospital ASAP. But the cops pulled us over and are telling me to get out of the car. Their orders are unreasonable to me. What’s more important to me now - Getting this situation over quickly so my GF can see her dieing mother or gaining the thanks of citizens everywhere for my brave act of disobedience? As in many of these hot-button situations the stupidity of the police force is compounded by the stupidity of the citizen. I agree with many of you that the police should be trained to better handle a situation like this. But I also have to wonder at the stupidity it must take to tell people with weapons pointed at you that you will not do what they tell you to do. I wouldn’t trust ANYONE pointing a loaded weapon at me to refrain from pulling the trigger if I don’t do something as simple as GET OUT OF THE CAR. Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial to me if I’m dead. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/309 "2014-10-08T13:30:09Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > … > But more and more, with video cameras everywhere these days, I’m often more sympathetic to the citizens rather than the cops. A lot of police behavior that we have video evidence of lately has seemed to me to be inexcusable. Someone needs to teach some of the officers how to police. Teach them that it is about “serve and protect” not “hassle and abuse”. Seeing these videos that are taken now that cameras are almost literally everywhere has really opened my eyes to how much the police have been lying on their reports. They still lie, even though there’s video evidence against them. How bad were the lies when it was all about their word versus the victim? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m hoping this is sarcasm. Otherwise we have a serious communication breakdown here. So, did you not read through to the end of that post? I thought this made the sarcasm pretty clear: [QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I] He was black. He was male. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/310 "2014-10-08T13:31:51Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > … > I wouldn’t trust ANYONE pointing a loaded weapon at me to refrain from pulling the trigger if I don’t do something as simple as GET OUT OF THE CAR. Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial to me if I’m dead. And, then, if he gets out of the car too quickly, he’s also shot. After they pulled their weapons on the family, he probably thought he could get some protection from these crazies by staying in the car. Also, “dying”, not “dieing”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/311 "2014-10-08T13:37:35Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > During the White House meeting, the cop sat like a steaming turd, admitting no error; as if Showing Them Who’s Boss is something and Oppression Under Color of Office is nothing. I don’t get much TV where I live, but must have been at a hotel with cable TV when that happened because I saw the meeting. I was amazed. The cop’s turdly behavior had landed him at the White House – a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. He could have smiled, extended an olive-branch, improved public perception of police, made himself the admiration of his kids and grandkids, etc. Instead he just made it very clear he did _not_ want to share a beer with _two_ niggers. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/312 "2014-10-08T13:48:23Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > As in many of these hot-button situations the stupidity of the police force is compounded by the stupidity of the citizen. I agree that the two victims did not look overly bright in the video. So what? Some people were born with low IQ’s. Does that make them targets for police harassment? Is stupidity now a crime? Another recent news article tells of a policeman who throws a 92-year old demented man to the floor, pressing him down, breaking his bones, to handcuff him. Is old age also a crime? The comments I see at SDMB, including some from Dopers on the more rational “side of the aisle,” disturb me. I doubt if such ignorant, often racist, attitudes are common in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/313 "2014-10-08T14:17:19Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > All I gotta say is thank goodness for camera phones. Without this technology, stories like this would forever be treated like second-hand anecdotes about Big Foot sightings. I wonder how bad police were behaving before cameras were all over the place. It’s scary to contemplate. > > Have we see any indication bullying cops are curbing their aggression, despite there being a new embarrassing example each week of jackboot policing? I would think every local police department across the country would be advising their force to cease with any unnecessary displays of violence. I mean, at least until Ferguson was well behind us. Either this messaging is not happening or the cops are unable to reign themselves in when they get the urge to become abusive. As the Daily Show said last night, no one knows how many people have been killed by police. We have no idea. (I can’t even find a WHO stat on it, but I suppose that “death by cop shooting” wouldn’t be on most coroner reports.) But the Cato Institute has some interesting stats on “excessive force”: [ul] [li]4,861 – Unique reports of police misconduct tracked[/li][li]6,613 - Number of sworn law enforcement officers involved (354 were agency leaders such as chiefs or sheriffs)[/li][li]6,826 - Number of alleged victims involved[/li][li]247 – Number of fatalities associated with tracked reports[/li][li]$346,512,800 – Estimated amount spent on misconduct-related civil judgments and settlements excluding sealed settlements, court costs, and attorney fees.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/314 "2014-10-08T14:29:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I agree that the two victims did not look overly bright in the video. So what? Some people were born with low IQ’s. Does that make them targets for police harassment? Well, in this case it certainly did. > [@](#): > > Is stupidity now a crime? No, and if you read my posts very carefully (I know that may be hard for you while you’re foaming at the mouth) you might notice that I never said such. I made an observation of the situation. Maybe I could give you an example of what I was attempting to explain. Example - you’re walking down the street and a crowd of armed thugs surrounds you and tells you to turn around and go back. Your two choices are to do what they tell you or argue with them that you have a right to walk down their street. Which choice is the wise one? > [@](#): > > Another recent news article tells of a policeman who throws a 92-year old demented man to the floor, pressing him down, breaking his bones, to handcuff him. Is old age also a crime? Another example of stupidity by the police. Again I won’t even try to defend that. > [@](#): > > The comments I see at SDMB, including some from Dopers on the more rational “side of the aisle,” disturb me. I doubt if such ignorant, often racist, attitudes are common in other countries. Oh for fuck’s sake. Racist? Ignorant? How fucking polarized do you have to be to be to make comments like that? I said that if it were me, I’d get out of the car. That isn’t racist, that’s me-ist. I said situations like this often happen because stupidity is compounded from both sides of the confrontation. So am I hating white or black. Let me know so I can “Join a side” I get real fucking tired of the people in these threads that insist on drawing a fucking line in the sand and trying to force all the participants into standing on one side or the other. It’s a process that is repeated over and over in the pubby-dem bullshit threads and is often used in the us vs them threads about law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/315 "2014-10-08T14:57:58Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > In this case, without knowing the exact details other than what I’ve watched and read from web stuff linked in this thread, I do believe that the police were not acting way out of place by drawing their weapons if a man reached into a gym bag while seated in a car. IMHO, it is fair for cops to view that as a potential threat. The dude in the car might have been more careful about that–giving them warning about what he intended to do. Here’s the problem with that statement: the cops asked him to produce ID. Doing so, in virtually all cases, requires the complying citizen to reach into a pocket or bag or purse or backpack. Therefore, complying automatically puts you at risk. It puts in you a situation were you can NOT look harmless to a hair-trigger cop. Now, me, I’d be inclined to say “I’ve got it in my bag here” and slowly move to extract my wallet, but there’s still the issue that some police are going to view that as threatening no matter how I go about doing it. See the catch-22? If you don’t comply they have cause to beat you and might even shoot you. But if you comply they might view it as a threat and beat you or shoot you. Yeah, I know a traffic stop is dangerous for the cops. It should also be obvious by now it’s dangerous for the citizen being stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/316 "2014-10-08T15:05:13Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Remember the “Beer Summit,” when Obama was new on the job and thought he had spare time for that kind of bullshit? I think he thought the public might be willing to explore the issue because it affects a lot of people. LOL! > [@](#): > > During the White House meeting, the cop sat like a steaming turd, admitting no error; as if Showing Them Who’s Boss is something and Oppression Under Color of Office is nothing. > > It’s like the entire USA is a young woman, and the cops are her asshole boyfriend, unwilling to ever own a mistake or make amends, and doubling down when called on his shit. Fortunately the president has mostly stuck to things like federal civil rights investigations and changes to racially unjust laws since then. Those things do make a difference. > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > You know, when I read these kind of stories; these kinds of threads, I often have somewhat mixed feelings. I think that people are too quick to judge police officers sometimes, but I also think police officers are all too often too quick to assume that peaceful citizens are violent criminals. > > In this case, without knowing the exact details other than what I’ve watched and read from web stuff linked in this thread, I do believe that the police were not acting way out of place by drawing their weapons if a man reached into a gym bag while seated in a car. IMHO, it is fair for cops to view that as a potential threat. Yes. I understand that one of the ways police keep themselves safe and alive is by understanding that even very unlikely outcomes - like a shootout during a traffic stop - are still possible, and guarding against those outcomes. I understand the extreme caution that is called for. But still- this is a guy in a car with his girlfriend and two children, they’ve been sitting in a traffic stop for at least a little while, they can’t even drive away because of the strips, and they’ve just asked him for ID. It’s the same as the gas station shooting from a couple of weeks ago: if you are a police officer and you give someone an instruction and you cannot tell the difference between following that instruction and doing something dangerous, you’ve done your job poorly. Maybe all they need to do is ask the guy _where_ his ID is before they ask him to get it. And again - same as last time - reaching into a backpack or a car is not inherently more threatening than reaching into your pants for a wallet. Amadou Diallo got killed because the police thought he was taking a gun out of his pants. If these cops think people are going for a gun every time they reach for anything _after the cops have told them to produce something_, then they are just doing their jobs badly. > [@](#): > > Things apparently has simmered down a bit. But the police officers’ actions once the video starts seem harsh, reactionary, and unnecessary. Right. > [@](#): > > I guess what I’m saying is–I can see some of these encounters from the police point of view. IOW, those guys are involved in risky shit during a traffic stop and they just want to get their sweet ass home when their shift is over. Agreed, except that it’s not particularly risky. > [@](#): > > A lot of police behavior that we have video evidence of lately has seemed to me to be inexcusable. Someone needs to teach some of the officers how to police. Teach them that it is about “serve and protect” not “hassle and abuse”. Yes. Well. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/317 "2014-10-08T15:56:11Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > So, did you not read through to the end of that post? I thought this made the sarcasm pretty clear: Thanks for clarifying, **I Love Me, Vol I**. See, that is my best guess as to why they decided to make the passenger identify himself. So we agree on that, then. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/318 "2014-10-08T15:57:42Z")
Sheesh, [you can’t even walk into your own house when you’re black.](http://abc11.com/340724/) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/319 "2014-10-08T16:16:12Z")
^ That story reminds me of the Gates situation. I understand cops were responding to a call about burglary, but why did this necessitate them throwing common sense out the window? I mean, how many burglars open the door when a cop knocks and pretends to live there? This has happened pretty much never. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/320 "2014-10-08T16:23:47Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s under User CP (top left of the bar, same line as the search link) under the Networking side tab. > > [Here is a link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/profile.php?do=ignorelist) Thanks. I always assumed it was one of the options when you clicked on a username until I actually had to and realized it wasn’t. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Thanks. In 12 years, I’ve never made use of that feature. Me either (only it’s 11 years and 5 months.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=17)