# Another filmed police encounter (Hammond, IN) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645 "2014-10-07T13:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/81 "2014-10-07T18:27:46Z")
You know what? If police are in such abject fear of the public that they almost immediately escalate a $25 seatbelt traffic stop into a situation where guns are drawn, windows smashed and a passenger is tasered in front of kids…well then they should stop doing traffic stops. For their own safety and piece of mind of course. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/82 "2014-10-07T18:28:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Breaking a window, showering glass upon children, and tasing an unarmed and non-threatening man because he didn’t get out of his car. That’s unreasonable. You were expecting them to haul out a blowtorch and cut the door off its hinges? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/83 "2014-10-07T18:31:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For breaking a window and tasing an unarmed man who presented no threat to anyone? Yep. Failing to obey a lawful order from a police officer makes you a clear and present threat to everyone in the vicinity. > [@](#): > > How about the cops who beat the suspect when he stopped fleeing and gave himself up? That video doesn’t show enough for me to determine whether their actions were appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/84 "2014-10-07T18:31:26Z")
The attitude of Smapti and others who condone violent escalation by police is very strange when you think about it. It is as if cops are a alien species, or robot whose software can’t be modified. We are the employers of the police and they should act as we tell them. If we tell them to wait 28 minutes and 10 seconds before breaking a window and tasing a guy, then they should wait 28 minutes and 10 seconds. If they think that is crazy micromanagement, then don’t be a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/85 "2014-10-07T18:31:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You were expecting them to haul out a blowtorch and cut the door off its hinges? Heck, why bother! Just shoot him through the door and be done with it. After all, he was failing to comply, right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/86 "2014-10-07T18:32:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Several times. No, they didn’t. > [@](#): > > Which he did when he refused to get out of the car. Oooh, this is gonna be fun. Explain how he endangered someone by sitting in a parked car. > [@](#): > > I don’t approve of making up charges. Do you? Sure you do! Here’s an example: > [@Smapti](#): > > the passenger continues to sit still and babble incoherently as if he’s on drugs. (And he’s obviously smoking _something_ from the fumes we can see near his hand.) I was writing this before **Smapti** made that post, but I _love_ it when you try to make up crimes for the cops to accuse people of. It’s like watching an overenthusiastic _Whose Line Is It Anyway?_ audience member. You just throw shit out there. ‘Drugs!’ ‘Mental illness!’ Like the police might Google this thread and then find extra stuff they can charge some nonviolent civilian with. It’s good entertainment! :dubious: He’s not smoking anything. I think his girlfriend is smoking a cigarette, which is a gross habit but not illegal to my knowledge. The only time you see any fumes are when she gets near him, and that’s one time. And he’s not babbling or incoherent. You are a stupid asshole, and I suspect you jerk off to videos of police beating people. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/87 "2014-10-07T18:32:38Z")
While I hate police abuse as much as the next guy, I have to say that when a cop pulls you over, just follow his orders and don’t be a jackass. When someone seeks confrontation, they get it. And all of us with no proper context get to express our recreational outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/88 "2014-10-07T18:33:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Failing to obey a lawful order from a police officer makes you a clear and present threat to everyone in the vicinity. You are a liar. I say that as a compliment, because this statement is so dumb I don’t think you could possibly believe it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/89 "2014-10-07T18:34:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Several times. No they didn’t. > [@](#): > > Which he did when he refused to get out of the car. No he wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/90 "2014-10-07T18:35:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … > Point of order: did they ask nicely? (Qualification: aiming a gun at someone’s head doesn’t count as asking nicely.) It does however emphasize that they were serious about their request for him to exit the vehicle. I know I come across as an apologist for the police but truth is I’m not at all convinced that the cops handled this correctly. It’s just that, after watching the video I couldn’t see what could be gained by the action the guy in the car took. He’s basically surrounded by authority figures with lethal weapons (and non-lethal but quite painful ones too) who are ordering him to get out of the car. If it were me with my kids in the back seat I’m getting out of the car before some cop bust out or shoots out a window and potentially harms my kids. Following a moral or legally right path may not be the best choice if it gets your car damage4s, your body tazed, and your kids scared half to death. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/91 "2014-10-07T18:35:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Failing to obey a lawful order from a police officer makes you a clear and present threat to everyone in the vicinity. No it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > That video doesn’t show enough for me to determine whether their actions were appropriate. You’re constitutionally incapable of determining that actions by a police officer might be inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/92 "2014-10-07T18:37:46Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > If it were me with my kids in the back seat I’m getting out of the car before some cop bust out or shoots out a window and potentially harms my kids. He’s not sure that getting out of the car will help the situation, and he’s not sure what they’ll do to him if he gets out. And of course they proved him right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/93 "2014-10-07T18:38:30Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It does however emphasize that they were serious about their request for him to exit the vehicle. > > I know I come across as an apologist for the police but truth is I’m not at all convinced that the cops handled this correctly. > > It’s just that, after watching the video I couldn’t see what could be gained by the action the guy in the car took. He’s basically surrounded by authority figures with lethal weapons (and non-lethal but quite painful ones too) who are ordering him to get out of the car. I think he may have been terrified of what the cops would do to him if they got him outside the car. Some people’s fear of the police is _entirely reasonable_, and acting in a fearful but non-threatening and non-dangerous manner should not be sufficient to result in force applied. > [@](#): > > If it were me with my kids in the back seat I’m getting out of the car before some cop bust out or shoots out a window and potentially harms my kids. > > Following a moral or legally right path may not be the best choice if it gets your car damage4s, your body tazed, and your kids scared half to death. The onus of responsibility should be higher on those who apply the force than the scared guy who is just sitting there. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/94 "2014-10-07T18:40:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, they didn’t. Did you watch the video? The cop asks “Are you going to get out or not?” at least once that is audible, and gestures at least half a dozen times indicating that the man should step out of a car. The cop makes it clear that if they don’t get out they’re going to have to break the window, as evidenced by the woman’s reaction to complaining that her car is going to get messed up. They were far more polite than they were obligated to be. > [@](#): > > Oooh, this is gonna be fun. Explain how he endangered someone by sitting in a parked car. He is refusing to follow lawful orders and is behaving in a disorderly and incoherent manner. He is inherently dangerous. His response to seeing the officer approach the window with the breaching tool is “Look, if you gonna do this, I’m not operationin’ this vehicle!” He’s not behaving as a mentally sound individual. > [@](#): > > You are a stupid asshole, and I suspect you jerk off to videos of police beating people. Now you’re just being crass. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/95 "2014-10-07T18:40:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Interesting. The website [What are the rights of passengers during a traffic stop? | Flex Your Rights](http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/what-are-the-rights-of-passengers-during-a-traffic-stop/) suggests that passengers should refuse to answer questions or refuse searches without an attorney present. I wonder what would have happened if they insisted on waiting for their attorney, perhaps in addition to a supervisor? > > If you think asking for these things is over the top as an outcome of a safety stop, maybe the cops should stop shooting people or tasing them as the result of safety stops. I completely endorse the advice of the flex your rights site. [I carry these with me.](http://www.calgunlawyers.com/tear-away-business-card/) Refuse all searches, lock the door upon exit of the vehicle, etc. The thing is though, you cannot refuse to exit the vehicle when ordered to do so. You cannot refuse a Terry search at that point either. Exiting the vehicle can be done w/o answering any questions. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/96 "2014-10-07T18:42:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Failing to obey a lawful order from a police officer makes you a clear and present threat to everyone in the vicinity. 😃 Dude. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/97 "2014-10-07T18:42:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He’s not sure that getting out of the car will help the situation, and he’s not sure what they’ll do to him if he gets out. And of course they proved him right. Getting out of the car _would_ have helped his situation. For one, he wouldn’t have to replace that window. For two, he wouldn’t have been Tased. He brought this upon himself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/98 "2014-10-07T18:44:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The cop makes it clear that if they don’t get out they’re going to have to break the window This is never stated and never more clear. > [@](#): > > He is refusing to follow lawful orders and is behaving in a disorderly and incoherent manner. No, he’s orderly and coherent. What he says can be understood – he’s asking questions, and asking to speak to a supervisor. > [@](#): > > He is inherently dangerous. No he’s not. > [@](#): > > He’s not behaving as a mentally sound individual. Yes he is, though you’re not answering as a mentally sound individual. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/99 "2014-10-07T18:44:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Failure to use a seatbelt and failing to leave a vehicle when ordered are both crimes. What’s unreasonable here? Yeah, we should totally punish those by violence. In fact, a whipping and an afternoon in the stocks is what these people deserve! ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/100 "2014-10-07T18:44:49Z")
I’m skeptical of the motives of every officer for even choosing the profession and yet I still don’t think ‘waiting them out’ is an acceptable strategy. Its not in the public interest to have employees of the state sitting around cars on the side of the road all day until intransigent citizens decide to stop stonewalling. I can’t decide whos in the right here because the incident that began this isn’t on camera. I would like to see the cop’s dashboard cam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=6)