# Another filmed police encounter (Hammond, IN) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645 "2014-10-07T13:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/121 "2014-10-07T18:59:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Isn’t there a board rule against accusing members of being sexually turned on by whatever they’re advocating for? No, you police brutality wanker, there is not. [There is a rule specific to Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4749265#post4749265), so you can count on me not bringing up your fetish in that forum. And really, I’m not judging. Who can explain why we’re into whatever we’re into? Some guys like blondes, some like watching police shoot or attack innocent people. I do think it’s bad form that your lust for this kind of thing renders you incapable of being objective. The people in those videos that make you jizz are real human beings who don’t deserve this kind of treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/122 "2014-10-07T19:00:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Only if the accuser is proven wrong. > > But you understand that sort of assumption of guilt until proven innocent, right? No, because I live in America. What ass-backwards country do you hail from? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/123 "2014-10-07T19:01:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that country is _this_ one. If the man in question had been obeying the law he would have had nothing to fear. Wherein, obeying the law = following orders, yes? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/124 "2014-10-07T19:01:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They Tased him because _he refused to leave the vehicle of his own volition._ Had he stepped out of the car as instructed, they would have had no cause to use force to remove him from the car. That is not a legitimate reason to tase him. If the law says it is (and you’ve failed to demonstrate this – for someone who worships the law as much as you, you’re remarkably pathetic at actually citing the law), then the law is wrong and should be changed. Fear of the police is entirely reasonable for many people, and acting in a fearful but non-dangerous way should not be met with force. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/125 "2014-10-07T19:02:04Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > If there is no immediate danger, there is **ZERO** reason why officers should do anything other than wait for the non-violent, traffic-infracting citizen to comply. Any police force that believes otherwise is not one I want ‘protecting’ the citizens of my town. And how long should they wait for? Five minutes? Ten? An hour? A couple of days? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/126 "2014-10-07T19:02:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, because I live in America. But you don’t believe anybody else does. Just you and the cops. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/127 "2014-10-07T19:02:40Z")
Ahh, I thought I heard the sound of jackboots stomping. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/128 "2014-10-07T19:03:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And how long should they wait for? Five minutes? Ten? An hour? A couple of days? At least until the HOT NOW sign is on at the Krispy Kreme donut shop. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/129 "2014-10-07T19:03:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That is not a legitimate reason to tase him. If the law says it is, then the law is wrong and should be changed. As quoted upthread, [the Supreme Court has held that officers have the legal right to order passengers out of a vehicle during a traffic stop.](http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1268.ZO.html) If you feel that this is such an egregious violation of the inalienable rights of Man, then I sincerely encourage you to write your Congressman and get him working on amending the Constitution to close that loophole. > [@](#): > > Fear of the police is entirely reasonable for many people No, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/130 "2014-10-07T19:04:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And how long should they wait for? Five minutes? Ten? An hour? A couple of days? They could wait for a supervisor to arrive, as the man requested. No one was in any danger, and there was no risk to waiting. Or, considering that the only possible violation of the law was a seatbelt violation, they could have written the woman a ticket and _let them go_. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/131 "2014-10-07T19:04:22Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It does however emphasize that they were serious about their request for him to exit the vehicle. To be fair, it would suck that they busted his window and tased him if they weren’t serious about it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/132 "2014-10-07T19:05:42Z")
Of course then there’s the question of why they wanted him out of the car anyway. They asked for ID, but even though they almost killed him, he did provide it. So what was the problem? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/133 "2014-10-07T19:05:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As quoted upthread, [the Supreme Court has held that officers have the legal right to order passengers out of a vehicle during a traffic stop.](http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1268.ZO.html) Having the legal right to order doesn’t mean that it’s appropriate to smash windows, shower children with glass, and tase him for noncompliance. > [@](#): > > No, it is not. Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/134 "2014-10-07T19:06:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I completely endorse the advice of the flex your rights site. [I carry these with me.](http://www.calgunlawyers.com/tear-away-business-card/) Refuse all searches, lock the door upon exit of the vehicle, etc. The thing is though, you cannot refuse to exit the vehicle when ordered to do so. You cannot refuse a Terry search at that point either. Exiting the vehicle can be done w/o answering any questions. Those are totally boss. I wish the Public Defender’s office could afford them. I’m sending a link to that site to my husband. Awesome. **Smapti** - are you a former LEO? I’m pretty sure most, if not all, of the cops I work with would disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/135 "2014-10-07T19:07:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They could wait for a supervisor to arrive, as the man requested. No one was in any danger, and there was no risk to waiting. Or, considering that the only possible violation of the law was a seatbelt violation, they could have written the woman a ticket and _let them go_. And then we’d be having a thread about how the racist cops unlawfully detained a woman on her way to see her dying mother because the manager didn’t get there fast enough. Don’t pretend that isn’t how you’d spin it if things had gone the way you currently say they ought to have. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/136 "2014-10-07T19:07:24Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > **Smapti** - are you a former LEO? I’m pretty sure most, if not all, of the cops I work with would disagree with you. **Smapti** is waaaaay too much of a coward to ever be a cop. He’s stated that he wouldn’t even risk his life to save _his child from drowning_. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/137 "2014-10-07T19:07:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Isn’t there a board rule against accusing members of being sexually turned on by whatever they’re advocating for? No. Nor apparently is there a rule against being an obsequious little toad who shows up in every goddamned cop thread and derails it with his excruciatingly predictable, childish sloganeering. To our great detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/138 "2014-10-07T19:08:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No. Nor apparently is there a rule against being an obsequious little toad who shows up in every goddamned cop thread and derails it with his excruciatingly predictable, childish sloganeering. To our great detriment. In fairness, pretty much everyone smaptis these threads before he gets a chance to now. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/139 "2014-10-07T19:08:29Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > … I couldn’t see what could be gained by the action the guy in the car took. > … > If it were me with my kids in the back seat I’m getting out of the car before some cop bust out or shoots out a window and potentially harms my kids. > > Following a moral or legally right path may not be the best choice if it gets your car damage4s, your body tazed, and your kids scared half to death. It is common for people to be puzzled when they think about the benefits and costs of the actions taken by the passenger in this incident, or say by Daniele Watts in hers. What the cops ask seems not so unreasonable, and the costs of not immediately complying are very large for those involved. Thus the public explains to themselves the actions of the non-cooperators by saying they were irrational: uppity, crazy, on drugs, venal, or in general and deserving of their abuse. We really should be grateful to those who produce the Public Good of civil disobedience / non-cooperation with unreasonable orders from police. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645/140 "2014-10-07T19:08:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And then we’d be having a thread about how the racist cops unlawfully detained a woman on her way to see her dying mother because the manager didn’t get there fast enough. No we wouldn’t. I haven’t started any threads about non-violent cop behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-filmed-police-encounter-hammond-in/700645.md?page=8)