# Another Firearm Question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322 "2008-12-08T23:42:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/41 "2008-12-11T12:48:41Z")
At risk of being repetitious, the risk of bear attack\_while non-zero\_is insignificant compared to the risk of attack by predatory humans. Weapons selected because they are effective grizzly bear stoppers will be far less than ideal for self-defense against humans. YMMV, but in this area I prefer to play the odds. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/42 "2008-12-11T12:52:35Z")
Say bears had hands, would they be intelligent enough to fire a gun? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/43 "2008-12-11T13:48:10Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Say bears had hands, would they be intelligent enough to fire a gun? I think the bigger question here is “If a bear was the Pope, would he shit in the woods?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/44 "2008-12-11T13:54:26Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I think the bigger question here is “If a bear was the Pope, would he shit in the woods?” 😃 I know. Forgive the hijack, gang. I just had the thought of “What would be more dangerous than a fully grown bear charging at me?”, and the answer was, “A bear with an assault rifle!”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/45 "2008-12-11T14:33:36Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > I’m not a big fan of Elmer Keith. What?!?! Why?!?! Elmer Keith is the godfather of long distance high powered handgunning. He literally wrote the book on it. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/46 "2008-12-11T18:38:13Z")
My friend lizard makes an excellent point, and I am sure the .44 mag would be more effective fired from a rifle. That being said, a melon is not half a ton of very angry grizzly that has been wounded and is looking to kill you before it dies. I think that a few rifled slugs from a 12 gauge pump shotgun would be the minimum I would be comfortable with using. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/47 "2008-12-11T18:58:24Z")
… and for goodness sake pull the plug. It’s for defense, not hunting. You want as many shells available as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/48 "2008-12-11T19:13:23Z")
friend lieu, My 12 gauge pump under consideration is a High Standard Riot shotgun with an 18 1/2 inch barrel and holds seven… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/49 "2008-12-11T19:28:20Z")
If you want to go to the trouble, it’s possible to get triple-aught or even quadruple-aught buckshot. How would these compare to slugs? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/50 "2008-12-11T19:34:02Z")
Shot doesn’t have the penetrative power of slugs, especially compared to the advanced modern slugs. Shot essentially gives you a cluster of projectiles that each are about as powerful as a low-powered pistol round. Shot is also round, which means that it loses velocity quickly and penetrates poorly. There are claims that shot (and smg’s) perform better thant their projectile ballistics indicate they should because the multiple hits “overwhelm” the nervous system. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. I prefer to talk in terms of penetrating major organs and breaking bones. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/51 "2008-12-11T20:10:42Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Question #2. I plan on heading into the mountains, often by myself, to go fishing and I would like like to take along a pistol that has enough power to discourage a grizzly bear, bull elk or mountain lion that decides to attack me. I not planning to ever have to use it, but if a large animal decides to charge me I think I need some way to discourage it. \ Most animals will make themselves scarce if you “announce” your presence, be it carrying bells, talking, or even just human smell. Bells are best because you can’t talk non stop (and the human voice doesn’t carry well). And smell is subject to winds and strength. The key is you never want to surprise them unannounced. Even if you do round a corner and spot a bear, elk, moose or wolf, you can get out of it, if you know what to do. Not always the case with a sow and cubs but it’s possible. On the other hand, mountain lions are a different breed. They don’t always scare. In fact, announcing your presence may attract them (“Here, kitty, kitty, kitty!”). The real issue is they will stalk you and you will never know it until it’s too late. A firearm in the backcountry is only a tool. Before you go, you need to know and understand the backcountry. That said, when you know the backcountry, you don’t need to always bring all your tools. \ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/52 "2008-12-11T22:18:34Z")
But if you stop a .32-20, all the doctors in Hot Springs sure can’t help you none. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/53 "2008-12-12T01:19:49Z")
Right tool for the right job. For home defense, I’d advocate a large caliber revolver. .357mag or even a .44 with a light load or .44 specials. Excellent man-stoppers, small and easy to handle compared to a long gun, no controls to worry about or action to work. Pull, _AIM_ and shoot. If semi-autos are your thing, a 9mm would be minimum, .40 or .45 are a tiny bit better, IMO, but remember to practice, practice, practice Don’t buy any stupid-large hand cannon, planning to carry it for bears, you’ll never practice it enough to be good with it, they just cost too damn much to feed. If you can afford one of them, you can afford a more appropriate gun to carry in the woods. Shotguns are great, versatile tools, but if you don’t need the capability to shoot shot or slug, carry a rifle, in a hunting caliber. Bears are far tougher than humans. Generally speaking, something in a heavy .30 caliber or larger. Some 30-06 loads, various flavors of .300 mag, 338, etc. Don’t carry something light and hope on scaring it away. Plan on shooting to kill, or don’t bother to carry at all. Same thought applies to racking the slide on a pump shotgun. Gives away several tactical advantages- let’s the bad guy know you’re armed and gives away your location. Yeah you may scare him, but his response may be to let fly a few rounds through your bedroom door. Nearly all interior walls and doors are easily pierced by handguns, let alone rifles and shotguns. “Safety” bullets, such as Glasers are damn expensive compared to regular ammo, and thus you’re less likely to practice with your carry load. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/54 "2008-12-12T04:03:02Z")
> [@ryan](#): > > Don’t buy any stupid-large hand cannon, you’ll never practice it enough to be good with it, they just cost too damn much to feed. Does practicing with a .22 auto help me hit what I point a 1911A at? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/55 "2008-12-12T04:08:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Does practicing with a .22 auto help me hit what I point a 1911A at? There are several .22 conversion kits on the market that take only a minute or two to make the switch. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/56 "2008-12-12T04:57:38Z")
If I buy the Beretta Neo and screw around with it and some beer cans, will it help me point a larger caliber pistol? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/57 "2008-12-12T05:04:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > If I buy the Beretta Neo and screw around with it and some beer cans, will it help me point a larger caliber pistol? Practicing with a .22 will help you shoot better as without the recoil, you can concentrate on the mechanics. Also .22 ammo is cheap and you can shoot more. You do need to practice with your main pistol to train yourself to it’s specific operation. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/58 "2008-12-12T08:33:55Z")
Yes to what **Runner Pat** wrote, but I’ll add that it’s not only important to train with your specific weapon, you also need to practice with the ammo you’ll be keeping loaded in it on a regular basis. Recoil, muzzle blast, etc, are very different between say a .38 special and a .357 mag, even when you are shooting them from the same gun. This is far, far more noticeable if going from a .22lr conversion kit to a 45acp. They’ll also behave differently when fired, impacting at a different point. So to answer **carnivorousplant** , yeah, it’ll help you “point” a larger caliber gun, and maybe even help you hit something with your first shot, but don’t expect to be able to hit anything with your second. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/59 "2008-12-12T18:43:30Z")
Thanks to everyone for responding. I clearly have some research to do and I plan on trying out various types of guns and rounds to determine which one is best for me. Once I pick out what I want I will be attending a variety of NRA courses on how to safely use and store these weapons and I will go to the range and practice often. I will be living fairly close to a range so I have no excuse not to practice. I plan on getting a dog and I will make myself known when I am walking through the woods to avoid confronting bears whenever possible. I will also rethink the gun safe idea since everyone agrees that unlocking a gun safe to retrieve a weapon may not make sense when an intruder is already in your house. Since the chances of encountering a person are far greater than a bear I am probably leaning towards a 22 guage shotgun and a .357 revolver, but I need to check out what is available. I’m really impressed by how much knowledge there is out there on guns and by all of the people that have provided me with sage advice. I won’t take this task lightly. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322/60 "2008-12-12T18:50:59Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > Self-defense against a bear and self defense against a person are very different propositions. I’m with **longhair75**. I’m not a big fan of Elmer Keith, but he said one thing I agree with: _Son, if you want to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember._ I know little about bears, but I’d carry the biggest, most powerful weapon I possibly could, and preferably not a handgun. The .44 Mag is powerful enough at short range, but [I’d prefer to shoot it out of something like this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLOaehxe6ko). Those old Marlin and Winchester lever actions are quite light and handy for rifles, but get the most out of any pistol round. I agree with you on all points. I was merely adressing the upthread question as to why .357 is highly regarded, not making any recommendations on its use for bear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-firearm-question/476322.md?page=4)