# Another Football Anomaly **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 1, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039 "2019-01-01T14:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/1 "2019-01-01T14:39:23Z")
In the Ravens-Chargers game last week, the Ravens scored the last touchdown (by interception as I recall). The Ravens’ score jumped from 16 to 22 Ravens. No one bothered to talk about the extra point or two-point conversion…not even the camera followed this. What happened? Am I to assume the Ravens quickly failed at whatever they attempted, and the game continued? ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/2 "2019-01-01T15:23:42Z")
The Ravens attempted a 2 point conversion and failed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/3 "2019-01-01T15:26:44Z")
You do have to try the conversion after the expiration of regular time, because the defense can cause a turnover and score the other way. In overtime, the game is immediately over when the TD is scored, so there is no conversion attempt. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/4 "2019-01-01T15:41:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You do have to try the conversion after the expiration of regular time, because the defense can cause a turnover and score the other way. In overtime, the game is immediately over when the TD is scored, so there is no conversion attempt. The NFL [changed that rule](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattrybaltowski/2018/04/09/new-nfl-rule-eliminating-last-second-extra-points-could-have-little-effect-on-vegas-point-spreads/#2d4e97b066d5) this season - if the extra point cannot affect the result of the game (i.e. the point differential is now at least 3), [they don’t do the PAT](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2018-nfl-rulebook/#article-2.-period-extended). It used to be you had to the PAT after any touchdown as time expired, even if the score was now 34-0. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/5 "2019-01-13T18:20:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You do have to try the conversion after the expiration of regular time, because the defense can cause a turnover and score the other way. In overtime, the game is immediately over when the TD is scored, so there is no conversion attempt. So, if attempting a one-point conversion, the kick is blocked, the D can recover and score a TD; but I was under the impression that they can score only 1 point on that play. And if a 2-point conversion is attempted and D recovers a fumble or intercepts a pass and scores on that play, do they get only 2 points on that play? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/6 "2019-01-13T19:39:24Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > So, if attempting a one-point conversion, the kick is blocked, the D can recover and score a TD; but I was under the impression that they can score only 1 point on that play. And if a 2-point conversion is attempted and D recovers a fumble or intercepts a pass and scores on that play, do they get only 2 points on that play? No, a blocked extra point returned to the other end zone is worth 2 points, same as if a turnover on a two point conversion is returned to the other end zone. ETA: The Saints were the NFL first team to score this way, back in 2015, the first year that rule went into effect: > **[Saints record first two-point blocked extra point return](https://www.nfl.com/news/saints-record-first-two-point-blocked-extra-point-return-0ap3000000595583)** > > New Orleans made a little bit of history on Sunday. The Saints became the first team to block an extra point attempt and return it for a score. Take a look at how the play transpired. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/7 "2019-01-13T19:44:58Z")
This brings up an interesting question. Suppose the team tries to kick an extra point. It’s blocked and the kicking team picks it up and runs it in for the conversion. One point or two? They started from the two yard line not the 15. Suppose instead the holder muffs the snap and then he or the kicker pick it up and run it in. One point or two? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/8 "2019-01-13T19:57:01Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It’s blocked and the kicking team picks it up and runs it in for the conversion. One point or two? From the rules: > [@](#): > > (b) If a Try results in a touchdown by either team, two points are awarded. As long as the play starts OK, if you run the ball into either endzone the team with the ball gets two points. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/9 "2019-01-14T00:21:45Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Suppose the team tries to kick an extra point. It’s blocked and the kicking team picks it up and runs it in for the conversion. One point or two? One in the NFL. You have to be trying for two to get two. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/10 "2019-01-14T00:51:46Z")
Wait. Wait. Telemark just cited a rule that gives 2 points to either team that recovers and runs the ball in the end zone. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/11 "2019-01-14T01:00:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > From the rules: > As long as the play starts OK, if you run the ball into either endzone the team with the ball gets two points. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One in the NFL. You have to be trying for two to get two. Are you sure about that, **ElvisL1ves**? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/12 "2019-01-14T01:02:01Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Wait. Wait. Telemark just cited a rule that gives 2 points to either team that recovers and runs the ball in the end zone. Maybe **Elvis** is getting confused with the one-point safety (which almost happened in the NFL for the first time this year in the Buffalo-New England game.) But, yes, a blocked extra point kick returned to the opposite endzone by the defensive team is two points. [Here’s an example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXP578HMun4). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/13 "2019-01-14T01:06:19Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Maybe **Elvis** is getting confused with the one-point safety (which almost happened in the NFL for the first time this year in the Buffalo-New England game.) > > But, yes, a blocked extra point kick returned to the opposite endzone by the defensive team is two points. [Here’s an example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXP578HMun4). Yes you gave the same example I did earlier in this thread. :rolleyes: The article I cited also listed the rule. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/14 "2019-01-14T01:08:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yes you gave the same example I did earlier in this thread. :rolleyes: ACK! My bad. Sorry about that. I only read the last post and the rule cited by **Telemark** , so I read the thread from there down. Sorry, I hate it when posters post something already mentioned in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/15 "2019-01-14T01:29:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > ACK! My bad. Sorry about that. I only read the last post and the rule cited by **Telemark** , so I read the thread from there down. Sorry, I hate it when posters post something already mentioned in the thread. It’s cool! It was a good example worth mentioning twice. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/16 "2019-01-14T13:27:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Maybe **Elvis** is getting confused with the one-point safety Or maybe you’re confused about what the question was. If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get \*one \*point for it (the rule was changed about 15 years ago, and wasn’t changed when the line of scrimmage for the kick was moved back). You have to try for two to get two. Yes, if the defense recovers a turnover on the play and returns it all the way, they do get two. Clear now? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/17 "2019-01-14T14:04:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or maybe you’re confused about what the question was. If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get \*one \*point for it (the rule was changed about 15 years ago, and wasn’t changed when the line of scrimmage for the kick was moved back). You have to try for two to get two. Yes, if the defense recovers a turnover on the play and returns it all the way, they do get two. > > Clear now? Man, I just did not have enough coffee yesterday! But that’s a more interesting question. On the one hand, it should make sense that a one-point try shouldn’t result in two points if blocked, recovered by the offense, and run in. But, on the other hand, that’s more difficult than a normal two-point try, so I can see just giving the two points. On the third hand, I don’t really see anything in the rules that states that it is one point. Can you point to the rule to clarify for the rest of us? Would it not possibly be a dead ball if recovered by the offense? I checked the dead ball section of the rules, but I’m not sure I’m seeing anything there either. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/18 "2019-01-14T14:18:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Clear now? Here’s the full text of the rule related to Trys: > [@](#): > > ARTICLE 2. RESULTS OF A TRY > During a Try, the following shall apply: > > (a) If a kick results in a field goal by the offense, one point is awarded. An artificial or manufactured tee shall not be permitted to assist in the execution of a Try-kick. (The conditions of 11-4-1 must be met.) > > (b) If a Try results in a touchdown by either team, two points are awarded. > > (c) If the Try results in what would ordinarily be a safety against either team, one point is awarded to the opponent. > > (d) If any play results in a touchback, the Try is unsuccessful, and there shall be no replay. > > (e) The Try ends when: > > either team scores > the ball is dead by rule > a fumble by either team is recovered by a teammate of the fumbling player I don’t see anything that says if a kick is blocked, recovered, and advanced legally that the offense only gets one point. It’s possible for it to become a dead ball and then neither team would score. But a direct reading of the rules implies that the offense would score two points if the kick was blocked or muffed, and then the ball advanced into the end zone. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/19 "2019-01-14T14:18:29Z")
OK, [the ESPN site claims it’s two points](http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/174752/inside-slant-everything-you-want-to-know-and-then-some-about-the-nfls-new-pat-rule) in that scenario. Packers are the kicking team in the hypothetical. These are following the 2015 rule changes: > [@](#): > > Block/Turnover Scenarios > > 1. Try from the 15-yard line. Kick is blocked and returned by the Bears across the Packers’ goal line. > > Result: Two points for the Bears. > > \*\*2. Try from the 15-yard line. Kick is blocked and recovered behind the line of scrimmage (LOS) by the Packers and advanced across the Bears’ goal line. > > Result: Two points for the Packers.\*\* > > 1. Try from the 15-yard line. Kick is blocked and recovered beyond the LOS by the Packers and advanced across the Bears’ goal line. > > Result: Try no good. Ball is dead when recovered by the Packers beyond the LOS. Emphasis mine. Which, now that I think about it more, actually makes sense, as it parallels the field goal rules, except a “touchdown” by either team is two points in a try situation. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039/20 "2019-01-14T16:24:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or maybe you’re confused about what the question was. If a team lines up to kick a one-point conversion in the NFL, screws it up somehow but gets the ball across the goal line anyway, they only get \*one \*point for it (the rule was changed about 15 years ago, and wasn’t changed when the line of scrimmage for the kick was moved back). You have to try for two to get two. Yes, if the defense recovers a turnover on the play and returns it all the way, they do get two. > > Clear now? You have already had the relevant rule quoted, and it disagrees with you. Do you have evidence to support your assertion? I, personally, don’t know the answer, you might. That’s why I asked if you were certain. When come back, please bring evidence. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-football-anomaly/827039.md?page=2)