# Another fucking scandal?! WTF?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289 "2013-06-06T14:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/41 "2013-06-06T22:16:15Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Since I’m not a conservative and I have just as much well-earned venom for them as I do for the Obama cultists These Obama cultists you keep railing about? They live in your head. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/42 "2013-06-06T22:19:02Z")
I don’t really consider this a scandal any more than trying to close down a torture dungeon started by our last president to be a failing on Obama’s part. This is what the NSA does, this power is what the Patriot Act gives to the executive branch. Maybe the GOP, in order to stop this, will stop renewing the PA unanimously each time it comes up ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/43 "2013-06-06T22:28:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Odd that noone stops to wonder where all these revelations are coming from, and all of a sudden, too. Poor timing, too. They shoulda saved it all for October 2014. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/44 "2013-06-06T22:29:07Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > These Obama cultists you keep railing about? They live in your head. And not in his alone . . . ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/45 "2013-06-06T22:44:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This is old news that is only being called a “scandal” now because it’s got Obama’s name attached to it. From your link: > > Emphasis added. Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely opposed to this kind of surveillance and have been ever since the post-9/11 “War on Terror” measures got started. But it’s absurd for anti-Obama media to pretend that this is somehow a new thing that’s specifically Obama’s fault. > > To the conservative frothers who are screaming about government tyranny, I say: Well, jackasses, this is why we civil-liberties types were trying to tell you ten years ago that you should oppose this kind of intrusive draconian security measure. Because someday, after you’ve calmed down from your “root out and kill all the Mooslim terrists!!1!!!” frenzy, such measures are still going to be operative _under an administration you don’t like_. > > To the Obama admirers who are disappointed that his administration hasn’t voluntarily discontinued this practice, I say: Suckers. I voted for Obama too because both times he was clearly better than the other guy, but I never kidded myself that the liberal principles of his administration extended to actually relinquishing any kind of executive power, however illegitimately derived. I couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to remember that whenever _their guy_ pushes to expand his powers, the next guy, who they might not like, will also have those new expanded powers. And, is likely to use them in ways that you don’t like. The whole point of civil liberties is that they protect people that those in power don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Bisector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Black\_Bisector](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Bisector)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/46 "2013-06-06T23:18:01Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > _One, two, three and to the fo’ > President Obama orders the NSA to your do’ > Ready to make an entrance, so back on up > (‘Cause you know about to rip shit up) > Gimme the phone records first, so I can bust like a bubble > Obama and Bush together, now you know you in trouble > Ain’t nuthin’ but a “G” thang, baaaaabay!_ Oh oh oh! Let me be Warren G Harding, I’ll be the worst rapping president ever! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/47 "2013-06-06T23:29:05Z")
That bastion of conservative thought, [the New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1), seems to think its important enough not to hand wave it away. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/48 "2013-06-06T23:32:07Z")
Also[this](http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/politics/nsa-internet-mining/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)is now being reported. > [@](#): > > The program has been running since 2007 and has undergone “exponential growth” since then, the Post reported. It is now the leading source of raw material for the National Security Agency, the secretive U.S. intelligence operation that monitors electronic communications. Again you can hand wave it away as starting with Bush but its been happening longer under Obama and expanding since he took office. But this room is a little warm so keep waving. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/49 "2013-06-06T23:36:44Z")
If conservatives, especially politicians and the media, showed any evidence of not liking these policies as policies, and not just because the current President is the one using them, this thread probably wouldn’t exist (or at least be a LOT weaker). Hell, if that happened, the policies themselves probably wouldn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/50 "2013-06-06T23:38:30Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to remember that whenever _their guy_ pushes to expand his powers, the next guy, who they might not like, will also have those new expanded powers. And, is likely to use them in ways that you don’t like. The whole point of civil liberties is that they protect people that those in power don’t like. When is the last time you could say Congress (or at least a majority of it) understood this? FISA? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/51 "2013-06-06T23:46:41Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Again you can hand wave it away as starting with Bush but its been happening longer under Obama and expanding since he took office. Nobody’s trying to “hand wave away” the pernicious **nature** of the surveillance program. Yes, we all agree (except **Bricker** and **Sun Jester** , I think) that this is a bad thing. What we’re contemptuous of is the transparently self-serving efforts to present it as a **scandal** , i.e., some secret nefariousness that’s suddenly been exposed. The conservatives who saw this whole thing put into place under Bush and didn’t bat an eyelash, and are now all of a sudden shocked, _shocked!_ that Obama has permitted it to continue, are a bunch of hypocritical shitflingers. By all means, let’s rally round for civil liberties and stop this unethical surveillance with a public outcry against it. But I somehow doubt that these shitflinging conservatives actually want to _stop_ the surveillance if they can just go on blaming Obama for it instead. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/52 "2013-06-06T23:54:09Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > If conservatives, especially politicians and the media, showed any evidence of not liking these policies as policies, and not just because the current President is the one using them, this thread probably wouldn’t exist (or at least be a LOT weaker). > > Hell, if that happened, the policies themselves probably wouldn’t exist. If that happened, I’d certainly be ready to make common cause with them to repeal the laws making these policies legal. And I expect that to happen by the next time Thanksgiving in the U.S. falls on a Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/53 "2013-06-07T00:32:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “the conservatives lambasting Obama about this, but not acknowledging that it was a Bush policy in the first place, are hypocrites whose newfound devotion to civil liberties is illusory”. > [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > As for the OP, to the Republican outcriers I say HA! and once again, HA! Am I the only one - the ONLY ONE - in this thread that realizes this “scandal” was broken by a British, leftist newspaper? And am I the ONLY ONE aware that both sides of the aisle have said “Yeah? So what?” The only people bitching are uninformed citizens and Congressmen who think they should get more oversight (read: power) over it. The only complaining going on is not R vs. D, but Congress vs. White House, who both can’t really say anything because they were both aware of it. So let’s stop with the “Oh geez, Conservatives are at it again!” schtick. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/54 "2013-06-07T00:35:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > If conservatives, especially politicians and the media, showed any evidence of not liking these policies as policies Show me evidence that politicians on either side show serious reservations about it, period. One or two Congressional nobodies don’t count. Show me a chairman or party leader. Chambliss _and_ Feinstein have joined the White House in support of the program. At best, you’ve got Boehner saying Congress should have more oversight…that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/55 "2013-06-07T00:46:02Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > When is the last time you could say Congress (or at least a majority of it) understood this? FISA? Well they had to pass it to know what was in it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/56 "2013-06-07T00:49:18Z")
> [@Chessic Sense](#): > > The only people bitching are uninformed citizens and Congressmen who think they should get more oversight (read: power) over it. More precisely, there are two categories of people complaining about this: those who have been bitching about the program all along (like the not-exactly-uninformed American Civil Liberties Union, who’ve been against this measure from day zero), and those who have started bitching about it now that they think it’s a stick to beat Obama with. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/57 "2013-06-07T01:27:35Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > If conservatives, especially politicians and the media, showed any evidence of not liking these policies as policies, and not just because the current President is the one using them, this thread probably wouldn’t exist (or at least be a LOT weaker). > > Hell, if that happened, the policies themselves probably wouldn’t exist. If opposition from the left cannot affect the civil-liberties policies of a Democratic administration, why would one think that opposition from the right would have affected a Republican administration? ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/58 "2013-06-07T01:35:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > More precisely, there are two categories of people complaining about this: those who have been bitching about the program all along (like the not-exactly-uninformed American Civil Liberties Union, who’ve been against this measure from day zero), and those who have started bitching about it now that they think it’s a stick to beat Obama with. Would that those of us in the former camp could actually believe that any action will come out of this through a temporary alliance with the latter camp. It’s a nice thought, to be sure, much like the thought of a fat-loss, muscle-building ice cream (which they’ll pay you to eat!) is a nice thought. But at this point, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The American people have spoken through their silence these past twelve years: Civil liberties are unimportant. Government secrecy is just fine, if you can find a tenuous link to protecting against terrorism. It’s utterly despicable, if you think about the sacrifice of values we have made, but as long as both of our major political parties agree on this issue (and make no mistake, they do), we’re stuck with this odious idea that safety is more virtuous than democracy. I wish this “scandal” would change things for the better. I very, very much doubt it will. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/59 "2013-06-07T01:47:12Z")
Enough of the fucking scandal-mongering. This is not new. They’ve been doing this sort of thing since the 80’s at the very latest, and I knew about it then. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289/60 "2013-06-07T02:34:17Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > Would that those of us in the former camp could actually believe that any action will come out of this through a temporary alliance with the latter camp. It’s a nice thought, to be sure, much like the thought of a fat-loss, muscle-building ice cream (which they’ll pay you to eat!) is a nice thought. But at this point, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The American people have spoken through their silence these past twelve years: Civil liberties are unimportant. Government secrecy is just fine, if you can find a tenuous link to protecting against terrorism. It’s utterly despicable, if you think about the sacrifice of values we have made, but as long as both of our major political parties agree on this issue (and make no mistake, they do), we’re stuck with this odious idea that safety is more virtuous than democracy. > > I wish this “scandal” would change things for the better. I very, very much doubt it will. Yes, but just imagine how much worse things would have been if we hadn’t DONE SOMETHING. Therefore we must continue DOING SOMETHING, or better yet, DOING EVEN MORE. It’s for the children, doncha know. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-fucking-scandal-wtf/660289.md?page=4)