# Another gay marriage ban struck down (Indiana) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 25, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619 "2014-06-25T16:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/1 "2014-06-25T16:23:02Z")
[http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Judge-strikes-down-Indiana-ban-on-gay-marriage-5578554.php?cmpid=hp-hc-nationworld](http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Judge-strikes-down-Indiana-ban-on-gay-marriage-5578554.php?cmpid=hp-hc-nationworld) ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/2 "2014-06-25T16:49:15Z")
…and Utah. > **[U.S. appeals court strikes down same-sex marriage ban in major ruling | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/25/politics/same-sex-marriage/index.html)** > > In a significant first, a U.S. appeals court has struck down a state ban on same-sex marriage, creating greater political and legal momentum for the Supreme Court to decide whether gays and lesbians have a constitutional right to wed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/3 "2014-06-25T16:50:50Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > …and Utah. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/25/politics/same-sex-marriage/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/25/politics/same-sex-marriage/index.html) This one is apparently a big deal [because it’s a ruling by a federal court instead of a state one.](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/gay-marriage-states-legal-map) ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/4 "2014-06-25T16:54:55Z")
So does the Utah ruling apply to the entire 10th circuit (pending appeal en banc and to the Supremes)? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/5 "2014-06-25T16:55:36Z")
Woot!! Woot!! Woot!! ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/6 "2014-06-25T16:56:18Z")
I have some very happy friends here in Indiana right now. This is awesome news. Can’t wait to tell the Weeping Princess. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/7 "2014-06-25T17:01:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This one is apparently a big deal [because it’s a ruling by a federal court instead of a state one.](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/gay-marriage-states-legal-map) From that article: “For instance, Wisconsin law allows domestic partnerships but makes it illegal for same-sex couples to travel out of state to marry. **Couples who do so, and continue living in Wisconsin, risk a $10,000 fine and nine months in prison.** ” Are they freaking kidding? The stereotypical Adam & Steve go to Indiana to get married, come back to live in Wisconsin and they could be thrown into prison? All in the name of “preserving traditional marriage” I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/8 "2014-06-25T19:16:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This one is apparently a big deal [because it’s a ruling by a federal court instead of a state one.](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/gay-marriage-states-legal-map) Nope. Plenty of federal courts have ruled similarly. This is a big deal because this is the first federal _circuit_ court to so rule. The Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, like her sister circuit courts but _unlike_ federal district courts, sets precedent. In other words, when a federal district court decides a case, essentially it’s deciding only that case. Another similar issue could be decided another way by another judge. But in the federal system, circuit courts set precedent for their areas. Now, as a matter of law in the 10th circuit, the Fourteenth Amendment protects the fundamental right to marry, establish a family, raise children, and enjoy the full protection of a state’s marital laws, and a state may not deny the issuance of a marriage license to two persons, or refuse to recognize their marriage, based solely upon the sex of the persons in the marriage union. THAT is huge deal. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/9 "2014-06-26T17:04:39Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > From that article: > > “For instance, Wisconsin law allows domestic partnerships but makes it illegal for same-sex couples to travel out of state to marry. **Couples who do so, and continue living in Wisconsin, risk a $10,000 fine and nine months in prison.** ” > > Are they freaking kidding? The stereotypical Adam & Steve go to Indiana to get married, come back to live in Wisconsin and they could be thrown into prison? > > All in the name of “preserving traditional marriage” I’m sure. WTF? Its illegal to travel to another state to get gay married?!? I can understand if the law simply says that WI won’t recognize out of state gay marriages, but fines and a jail sentence? Holy crap! Do they have such punishments for other types of marriages? I’m sure a few countries (maybe Kentucky too, lol) are ok with some version of incest marriage, does WI punish that equally? > [@Bricker](#): > > But in the federal system, circuit courts set precedent for their areas. Now, as a matter of law in the 10th circuit, the Fourteenth Amendment protects the fundamental right to marry, establish a family, raise children, and enjoy the full protection of a state’s marital laws, and a state may not deny the issuance of a marriage license to two persons, or refuse to recognize their marriage, based solely upon the sex of the persons in the marriage union. > > THAT is huge deal. Wait a second. Are you saying that, pending appeals, gay marriage would be legal in Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico (though this is already legal), Oklahoma, Utah, and Wyoming, all in one fell swoop without having to go through individual state challenges? ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/10 "2014-06-26T17:09:01Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Wait a second. Are you saying that, pending appeals, gay marriage would be legal in Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico (though this is already legal), Oklahoma, Utah, and Wyoming, all in one fell swoop without having to go through individual state challenges? Apparently Boulder County in Colorado thinks so: [Boulder County Clerk begins issuing marriage licenses…](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/lifestyle/family/boulder-county-clerk-begins-issuing-same-sex-marriage-licenses-after-historic-court-ruling06252014?autoplay=true) Their AG disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/11 "2014-06-26T17:23:00Z")
LOL, that will be a fun fight Please somebody tell me that this decision is un-stayed for the moment and all of those states can technically start issuing marriage license?? ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/12 "2014-06-26T17:37:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nope. Plenty of federal courts have ruled similarly. > > This is a big deal because this is the first federal _circuit_ court to so rule. The Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, like her sister circuit courts but _unlike_ federal district courts, sets precedent. One clarification: the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in against California’s Proposition 8 in “Perry v. Schwarzenegger”, which after some years of legal wrangling made California back into a marriage equality state. It was a narrowly defined decision though, which only applied to California’s specific circumstances. This is the first time a federal circuit court has ruled that any ban against same sex marriage is unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/13 "2014-06-26T17:40:04Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > LOL, that will be a fun fight > > Please somebody tell me that this decision is un-stayed for the moment and all of those states can technically start issuing marriage license?? The decision was automatically stayed pending appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/14 "2014-06-26T17:40:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > LOL, that will be a fun fight > > Please somebody tell me that this decision is un-stayed for the moment and all of those states can technically start issuing marriage license?? You want us to lie to you. 🙂 The decision was immediately stayed by the panel who made it. It’s going to Supreme Court review now. Still, with this decision, and other federal decisions pending, I think the Supremes will be compelled to take on the issue in their next session … unless there is unanimity in every single circuit court and they decide to accept that. That’s actually shaping up to be a real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/15 "2014-06-26T18:54:38Z")
Bah ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/16 "2014-06-27T13:10:01Z")
It wasn’t immediately stayed in Indiana. The Marion County Clerk (where Indianapolis is located) started performing marriages immediately. Yesterday the deal was so long as you were in line by 6PM you could get hitched. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/17 "2014-06-27T14:50:21Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > This is the first time a federal circuit court has ruled that any ban against same sex marriage is unconstitutional. The extremely important decision which many are overlooking is the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has declined to reconsider a previous decision requiring “heightened scrutiny” in cases involving sexual orientation. This just came down two days ago. The case was not about SSM directly, however a key point was because the question of the degree of scrutiny for sexual orientation. Earlier this year, a panel found that the logical conclusion from Windsor is that sexual orientation must have heightened scrutiny. In face of that ruling, Nevada declined to defend an appeal the the 9th Circuit by a gay couple which had lost at the district court level. As the 9th Circuit Court rejected the call to hear the case by the whole court, it becomes the ruling precedent for that district. > [@](#): > > The implications of the denial were summed up in a dissent by Judge Diarmuid O’Scannlain who said the decision “is perhaps all but this court’s last word on the question whether the (U.S.) Constitution will require states to recognize same-sex marriages … > > Peter Renn, a staff attorney at Lambda Legal who is part of the team representing the Nevada couples, said it would be difficult to overstate the significance of the 9th Circuit order. > > “Honestly, this decision is like a nail in the coffin of discriminatory marriage laws," he said. “The government’s burden in justifying discriminatory marriage laws became just that much harder.” > > “Renn said of the 21 judges who weighed in on the question of rehearing the case, only three joined in the dissent.” The losing side has said that they will not appeal the ruling to the supreme court. A federal district court in Idaho has struck down a ban on SSM, and the appeal is pending. With this ruling, the appeal from Idaho should fail at the 9th Circuit Court level. It will be interesting to see if Idaho also attempts to appeal to SCOTUS. I believe that public opinion has changed enough even since last year that SCOTUS will not reverse this. SSM will become the rule of law within a few years, nationwide. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/18 "2014-06-27T18:03:04Z")
So far, as of this hour (2:00 PM EDT), there is still no stay of the order in Indiana. All except 7 counties are issuing licenses, and there were a couple that were just waiting for updated paperwork. I don’t know what the final count is on legal marriages at this time, but I know it’s a lot. The Marion County (Indianapolis) Clerk is still issuing today, and is performing ceremonies through (I heard) 4:30 PM. A reliable source (although I don’t have confirmation) says that if they stay doesn’t come down this afternoon, it could be two more weeks. There is also a chance that the Marion County Clerk’s office will be open tomorrow, but not performing ceremonies. A number of local churches have had ministers on standby to perform ceremonies post-haste to get them in before the stay. There are at least 6-7 of them that I know of in the Indianapolis area. It’s all going very well here in the Crossroads of America. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/19 "2014-06-27T21:02:46Z")
> [@Avarie537](#): > > It wasn’t immediately stayed in Indiana. The Marion County Clerk (where Indianapolis is located) started performing marriages immediately. Yesterday the deal was so long as you were in line by 6PM you could get hitched. Just found out my aunt and her long-time partner who live in Nashville IN got married yesterday. Good for them! ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619/20 "2014-06-27T22:12:08Z")
So it sounds like the 9th and 10th circuits are all but a done deal. I seem to remember hearing that the 10th was considered a fairly conservative court (correct me if I remember wrong) so this good news indeed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-gay-marriage-ban-struck-down-indiana/691619.md?page=2)