# Another God question **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 14, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655 "2011-08-14T04:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/41 "2011-08-15T19:49:24Z")
Yes, we are all characters in a big play. Unfortunately, the characters we play are [Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_and_Guildenstern_Are_Dead) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/42 "2011-08-15T20:19:49Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Part of the reason for suffering here is that if God corrected everything, there would be no need to seek Him, there ironically be no need for Him in our hearts, or no need for a transition to His Kingdom. So he only hits us because he loves us? ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/43 "2011-08-15T22:15:55Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Thanks for the link. I found the article to be very facinating and it gave me quite a bit to contemplate. You’re welcome, glad to be of help. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/44 "2011-08-15T22:24:06Z")
The people described in the OP have survived a situation in which they thought they would die. They credit it to God because, from their point of view, their unlikely survival seems miraculous. They’re not thinking logically about the situation, and I’m sure they’re not thinking about the people that died. They’re thinking, “I can’t believe I’m still alive! It’s a miracle! Thank you God!” I don’t think many people actually believe God saved their lives. You don’t really hear people other than the survivors themselves credit it to God. You don’t hear people “blaming” God for the dead because the people that would are the dead ones. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/45 "2011-08-15T22:33:02Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > You don’t really hear people other than the survivors themselves credit it to God. Sure you do - it happens all the time. Two recent examples I can think of are the Chilean miners and the survivors of the plane that ditched in the Hudson, when that seemed to be the typical response of people everywhere. > [@](#): > > You don’t hear people “blaming” God for the dead because the people that would are the dead ones. Right, but that just indicates they haven’t thought through their theology. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/46 "2011-08-15T22:41:35Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > You don’t hear people “blaming” God for the dead because the people that would are the dead ones. Possibly since they are dead they are taking their complaints to the Man himself? Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/47 "2011-08-16T00:21:14Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Good point. If it were an ancient Sun God my opinion would be that he wouldn’t care. However I was taught that God considers each and every one of us as his children. If scripture portrays us that way I would think that yes, God does care about each of us. > > Now I realize there is a few hundred million people on earth so it boggles the mind that even God could care for each of us as an individual, but if God is really “all knowing and all seeing” then it would reason that he could care for and know us each as individuals. That’s not my point. What I was trying to say was that we might regard dying as a problem. But God doesn’t. He knows that everyone dies so there’s no point in “saving” anyone because all that does is have them die some other way. Look at all the people who look forward to the Rapture when God will take up all the righteous. Shouldn’t somebody who believes that also believe that death is a gift from God? Why don’t you ever hear people thanking God for taking all their loved ones in a car crash? Or asking why God forsook them by leaving them alive? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/48 "2011-08-16T12:19:34Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Care to expound? The parable of the prodigal son pretty much explains the situation. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/49 "2011-08-16T12:40:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The parable of the prodigal son pretty much explains the situation. It explains it to you, but it doesn’t make the God you believe in a very fair being. The God who acts in such a way doesn’t seem to know ahead of time what would happen, and if such a being exists there would be no Hitlers,bin-Ladan’s, or any criminals. A good father that could see the future would not want one child to harm another, I know as I am a parent if I had a child that would turn out to harm others I wouldn’t conceive them to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/50 "2011-08-16T12:41:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The parable of the prodigal son pretty much explains the situation. The parable that says “Years of faithful service and hard work and care for your father and the family are meaningless once your loser of a brother comes back from whatever binge he’s on? He gets the recognition and celebration and a party and a fatted calf while all this time, you’ve gotten nothing?” The parable where the moral is: Go out and sleep with prostitutes, get drunk, spend all your money and live it up, because when you come return to the fold, you’ll not only be taken back, but _rewarded_ for your behavior"? That parable? I’m not sure how it applies. (It’s a pretty sick parable) ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/51 "2011-08-16T12:44:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The parable of the prodigal son pretty much explains the situation. That reminds me of Rev. Lovejoy’s advice to read the bible “Oh, it’s all good.” I don’t understand how that is relevant to the point you made in your previous post. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/52 "2011-08-16T13:57:13Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The parable that says “Years of faithful service and hard work and care for your father and the family are meaningless once your loser of a brother comes back from whatever binge he’s on? He gets the recognition and celebration and a party and a fatted calf while all this time, you’ve gotten nothing?” The parable where the moral is: Go out and sleep with prostitutes, get drunk, spend all your money and live it up, because when you come return to the fold, you’ll not only be taken back, but _rewarded_ for your behavior"? That parable?.. Yes exactly, because the younger son is being trained to rule that world to be worthy of ruling over the oppressors and the oppressed. To experience life on all levels to be a just ruler from his life experience. How many times do we want our rulers to experience life as a common man, or even a poor man? God is a God of Love in the heart, and the son who traveled learned what Love is as he received it from His Father. That is what matters to the Father, that lesson is so important that the Father allowed that trip and a large amount of His estate to be wasted, and if needed the Father would have spent even more. The elder son in this, by example was not ready and doesn’t understand the Love that the Father has, until he does he is not ready to rule. ---
**Author:** ![downtown1441](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@downtown1441](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/downtown1441)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/53 "2011-08-16T14:18:51Z")
It’s a little bit tangential, but instead of thinking of life in terms of “everything happens for a reason” I think it makes a lot more sense to think of “it’s your job to find a reason for everything that happens.” Plenty of Christians don’t think of God as an old white dude with a beard, but more in terms of a Holy Spirit, sort of in the Buddhist sense. But yeah all the same, the corollary of your question is sort of the anti-miracle: for as many instances of someone surviving against all odds, there are plenty of flukey horrible unlikely deaths that, statistically, _shouldn’t_ have ever happened. Like the student who fell of Niagra Falls yesterday… not supposed to happen, but it did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/54 "2011-08-16T14:23:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The elder son in this, by example was not ready and doesn’t understand the Love that the Father has, until he does he is not ready to rule. Nonsense. Here’s what the father in the story actually says to his older son: > [@](#): > > ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.’ Neither is it suggested that the father in the story intended his younger son to waste his money, or experience life in poverty. It’s simply a story about the non-judgmental nature of unconditional love. The younger son does not \*deserve \*his father’s love, but receives it anyway. And that’s a hopeful thought for anyone who has made a major mistake in life. It would be a very cruel world if we always got exactly what we deserve. How much sweeter to think that SOMETIMES we get better than we deserve, for therein lies hope. Why you would want to twist such a sweet and loving story into something judgmental and nasty is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/55 "2011-08-16T14:34:23Z")
The other son kind of gets boned. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/56 "2011-08-16T15:34:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The other son kind of gets boned. Only if in the long term the father favors the younger son. The story is saying that there’s a need for both justice \*and \*mercy. It’s not \*fair \*that the younger son is welcomed home, but it is _kind_. A world with only justice and no mercy would be very hard and cruel. And sometimes we’re forced to choose between the two. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/57 "2011-08-16T15:37:53Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Nonsense. Here’s what the father in the story actually says to his older son: > > Neither is it suggested that the father in the story intended his younger son to waste his money, or experience life in poverty. > > It’s simply a story about the non-judgmental nature of unconditional love. The younger son does not \*deserve \*his father’s love, but receives it anyway. And that’s a hopeful thought for anyone who has made a major mistake in life. It would be a very cruel world if we always got exactly what we deserve. How much sweeter to think that SOMETIMES we get better than we deserve, for therein lies hope. > > Why you would want to twist such a sweet and loving story into something judgmental and nasty is beyond me. Your post reminds me of the Wizard of Oz when the Wizard tried to order Dorthy not to look behind the curtain. Jesus states at first a son is no different then a slave. This is where the elder son is. Though the Father wishes him to grow up and realize his place, the elder son is just not ready for it. The younger son certainly does realize at least part of his place, as a heir and has the right to request his inheritance and no longer be a slave. This is one of the steps that the son must realize in order to take his place as what it means to be God’s son. It is good that he realizes it. The part that the younger son didn’t get is that he is to dwell with the Father, as family, and not be apart from it. This is what this journey was about, the son realizing part of his inheritance that He left behind was His Father. For only with the Father’s continuous flow of Love to the Son will the Son maintain His place in the land of the living. It is a story of unconditional Love, but it’s more then that, it’s a celebration that a new King has come to realize His place. It is also a story that there are NO mistakes, all is working for the good. The young son didn’t make a single mistake as that is what he needed to learn. As a slave or as by himself the son doesn’t deserve forgiveness, but as the son with the father he is very worthy of forgiveness, as we all are as we are all sons and daughters of our God if we acknowledge God as our Father. Is not a Father responsibility for His child? As we are His we are not only forgiven but sinless. If we abide in Him He abides in us. It is also about the transition from the law, such as the 10 commandments and all that in in OT scripture, to living by the spirit, which there are no rules, no law, just Love. The elder son represents a son following the rules all his live but in the end he is bitter and has not yet learned. The younger one got rid of them and found the path to life. This is what Jesus calls ‘the way’ and was the name that earlier followers of Jesus were called. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/58 "2011-08-16T16:37:56Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Only if in the long term the father favors the younger son. Which he does since the younger brother has now spent his half of their inheritance, and anything else has to come right out of the older brother’s half. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/59 "2011-08-17T17:32:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes exactly, because the younger son is being trained to rule that world to be worthy of ruling over the oppressors and the oppressed. To experience life on all levels to be a just ruler from his life experience. How many times do we want our rulers to experience life as a common man, or even a poor man? > > God is a God of Love in the heart, and the son who traveled learned what Love is as he received it from His Father. That is what matters to the Father, that lesson is so important that the Father allowed that trip and a large amount of His estate to be wasted, and if needed the Father would have spent even more. The elder son in this, by example was not ready and doesn’t understand the Love that the Father has, until he does he is not ready to rule. You realize that’s not actually what the words say, right? I mean, if there’s a secret bible with The Prodigal Son part 2: The Prodigial’s Revenge, maybe. But the story is pretty clear and there’s nothing about the kid being the ruler of the world. And the rest of the Bible is pretty clear that “No, boinking hookers, getting drunk, gambling, etc isn’t good experiential education even if it broadens your worldview.” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655/60 "2011-08-17T17:36:00Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > It’s simply a story about the non-judgmental nature of unconditional love. The younger son does not \*deserve \*his father’s love, but receives it anyway. And that’s a hopeful thought for anyone who has made a major mistake in life. It would be a very cruel world if we always got exactly what we deserve. How much sweeter to think that SOMETIMES we get better than we deserve, for therein lies hope. While I like your interpretation better that his, I still have a problem with the younger kid being given a huge party while the older son gets no recognition for his years of hard work. Taking the younger kid back in? Sure. Giving him a small “Welcome home, you’re still loved” dinner? Very nice. Having the ancient equivalent of a bridezilla wedding to welcome him back rewards bad behavior and the kid doesn’t need the huge party to get his father’s love. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-god-question/592655.md?page=4)