# Another how far up shit creek is California thread ($20 minimum wage) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536 "2024-02-14T02:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/241 "2024-10-12T12:02:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Unskilled workers should be flocking to California. > > Why? Where would they live? Ca has a very high cost of housing. And there are only so many fast food jobs in big chains. They’ll be flocking to California to take advantage of all the hand-outs and freebies, doncha-know. That’s why all the homeless are going there, too! /s ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/242 "2024-10-12T14:22:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you’re in Couer d’Alene, you just drive over to Spokane for WA’s $16.28 minimum. Bingo! It’s a helluva commute, but work a couple hours and you’ve more than paid for the gas. And when you get a chance, move over to Spokane and save on rent as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/243 "2024-10-12T14:28:25Z")
In reality some people don’t move quite so easily because of other factors (friends, family, community) that exist where they now live but don’t in whatever place seems like a natural place to relocate to. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/244 "2024-10-12T18:59:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Influx of unskilled workers. > Exflux of people with money. > Net gain or loss? Net Gain. It opens up the housing market. Prices come down and everybody moves up a notch. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/245 "2024-10-23T20:48:36Z")
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/looking-at-california-s-20-minimum-wage-s-impact-6-months-later/ar-AA1sG9X1](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/looking-at-california-s-20-minimum-wage-s-impact-6-months-later/ar-AA1sG9X1) _[The Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at UC Berkeley](https://irle.berkeley.edu/publications/press-release/new-study-analyzes-impact-of-californias-20-minimum-wage-for-fast-food-workers/) compared Glassdoor job posts and online food menu prices two weeks before the minimum wage raise and 2 weeks after. It found that wages increased by 18%, employment numbers remained stable and menu prices increased by only 3 to 7%, or 15 cents on a $4 burger._ _Anneisha Williams said she knows the impacts firsthand. She’s been supporting her seven children on this minimum wage._ _“I’ve seen new employees getting hired,” she said. "So I feel absolutely not. They’re not losing out on business. I feel that they’re growing more on business because if not, why are you guys still hiring employees?_ ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/246 "2024-10-24T04:46:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Influx of unskilled workers. > Exflux of people with money. > Net gain or loss? Come back when something like that actually happens, and ask us then. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/247 "2024-10-24T22:09:21Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Come back when something like that actually happens, and ask us then. Some retirees are leaving for cheaper Cost of Living states. Sadly, they are picking hellholes like Nevada, Florida or texas. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/248 "2024-10-24T22:10:50Z")
Did the California wealth tax proposal go anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/249 "2024-10-24T22:13:08Z")
Nope. Newsome is opposed to the idea. _“As @CAGovernor Newsom has said repeatedly over many years, a wealth tax is not part of the conversation — **wealth tax proposals are going nowhere in California** ,” said Newsom spokesman Brandon Richards in a Tuesday post on X, formerly known as Twitter._ [https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article283977363.html](https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article283977363.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/250 "2024-10-25T16:15:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some retirees are leaving for cheaper Cost of Living states. Are retirees a net financial benefit to a state? On the one hand, they bring in money; but on other hand, they don’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/251 "2024-10-25T16:19:39Z")
While I’ve been working, I’ve been deferring federal and state income taxes on the money I contribute to my 401(k) plan. But once I retire and start withdrawing that money, I’ll be paying out federal and state taxes. So if I were to move from California to a state with no income tax, I would be avoiding paying out at least to the state. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/252 "2024-10-25T16:28:05Z")
You would probably be paying sales tax, property tax and various other fees. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/253 "2024-10-25T16:33:14Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Influx of unskilled workers. > Exflux of people with money. > Net gain or loss? Gain. The wealthy tend to be parasites (including paying relatively little taxes), and aren’t as good for the economy as non-wealthy people. Wealthy people tend to produce an unbalanced economy devoted to luxury goods and otherwise catering to them, while normal people consume a broader range of products and services while contributing much more. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/254 "2024-10-25T17:33:07Z")
More studies: > **[Looking at California's $20 minimum wage impact 6 months later](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/california-minimum-wage-impact/3686092/)** > > It’s been six months since minimum wage for workers at large fast food chains in California went from $16 to $20 an hour. > **[No, Raising the Minimum Wage Does Not Hurt Fast-Food Workers](https://jacobin.com/2024/10/fast-food-minimum-wage-california)** > > Fast-food corporations opposed a California minimum wage increase under the guise of concern for workers, claiming it would result in lost jobs. The bill passed, and the numbers are in: that concern was just scaremongering. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/255 "2024-10-25T17:38:00Z")
One thing about any minimum wage is the complaint that owners cannot afford it and workers will be fired. The reality is if the minimum wage were $1/day owners would still look to save money by replacing them with salaried managers working another 10 hours/week, robots, self-serving kiosks, &c. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/256 "2024-10-25T20:11:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Are retirees a net financial benefit to a state? I am not sure, Interesting question. Google AI says _"Whether retirees are a net financial benefit to a state is generally considered to be a “no,” as they often draw more in state services like healthcare and social security benefits than they contribute in taxes, especially in states with high tax burdens on retirees; however, this can vary significantly depending on the state’s tax structure, the demographics of its retiree population, and the cost of living in that area. "_ ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/257 "2024-10-28T17:16:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Are retirees a net financial benefit to a state? On the one hand, they bring in money; but on other hand, they don’t work. > [@DrDeth](#): > > "Whether retirees are a net financial benefit to a state is generally considered to be a “no,” as they often draw more in state services like healthcare and social security benefits than they contribute in taxes, especially in states with high tax burdens on retirees; however, this can vary significantly depending on the state’s tax structure, the demographics of its retiree population, and the cost of living in that area. " One other thing you have to factor in is that retirees free up jobs (often, anyway). You can have person A who was earning $90k/yr while employed, but then retires with a retirement income worth $60k/yr, leading to person B being hired for let’s say $80k/yr (seniority differences). Now you have two people earning a combined $140k contributing to the economy by purchasing goods/services where before you only the had the one person at $90k. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/258 "2024-10-28T17:17:36Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Now you have two people earning a combined $140k contributing to the economy by purchasing services/goods where before you only the one person at $90k. So the person now earning $80K wasn’t earning anything before? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/259 "2024-10-28T18:47:09Z")
I don’t know much about economics, so I have to ask: does one contribute to the economy by spending money, or does one contribute by working? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/260 "2024-10-28T19:36:55Z")
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