# Another how far up shit creek is California thread ($20 minimum wage) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536 "2024-02-14T02:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/101 "2024-02-15T19:53:40Z")
![](https://media.tenor.com/BHEkb1EYsaMAAAAM/aplausos-clapped.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/102 "2024-02-15T20:05:15Z")
True, but I prefer a little “skill” in that labor. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/103 "2024-02-15T20:10:20Z")
Oh, and OP? About the thread title? Look up _Poisoning the Well_ fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/104 "2024-02-15T20:59:40Z")
You mean raising minimum wages has more influence on inflation than artificially pumping up stocks with “quantitative easing”? (or “printing money” as we called it in Economics 101) Wages/price spiral is a thing. Not something you do by raising minimum wages. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/105 "2024-02-15T21:55:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What’s happening in California is a show. Business owners are trying to pretend they will collapse in order to try to reverse the minimum wage hike and increase the profits of the business owners. Yep. If the minimum wage was $1, they would still be crying, and lobbying to have it reduced to 50 cents. If they could get prisoners to work for free, they’d do so. _(cough) Post 83 (cough)_ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/106 "2024-02-15T22:12:10Z")
It wouldn’t be the first case of it, either. Some of the big retailers were caught lying …sorry “[overstating](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/organized-retail-crime-trade-group-half-of-all-missing-merchandise/)” the extent of organized shoplifting losses, quite possibly to cover poor performance. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/107 "2024-02-15T23:10:26Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > You mean raising minimum wages has more influence on inflation than artificially pumping up stocks with “quantitative easing”? (or “printing money” as we called it in Economics 101) Quantitative easing is one of the worst mistakes the government has made in the last half-century, possibly in the last century. But artificially fixing prices is not going to help. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/108 "2024-02-15T23:20:52Z")
That occurred to me after it was too late to edit. I’ll try to be more mindful in the future. OTOH, “Not at all” is a valid response. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/109 "2024-02-16T05:48:41Z")
I was trying to argue that 6 million or so people earning a couple more bucks doesn’t amount to much macroeconomicly - say 10$ more 10_40 hours_52\* 6000000 people= roughly 7 billion. That is roughly what Bezos makes. It is not even a rounding error seen from the 4000,000,000,0000 that is involved in the quantative easing schemes. To argue that raising minimum wages will raise or even influence inflation is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/110 "2024-02-16T08:40:57Z")
Maybe not, but it would sure help those on the bottom cope with inflation better than not raising wages. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/111 "2024-02-16T13:32:27Z")
Agree, but wouldn’t added labor costs that slightly raise fast food prices give the _appearance_ of inflation? It may not contribute to inflation at the macro level, but it can look and feel that way to consumers, right? Edit: sorry my question is a bit out of context to your response to another post. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/112 "2024-02-16T14:27:34Z")
It has yet to be demonstrated that higher wages must result in higher consumer prices. Probably, but in theory the difference could come from the pay of owners or higher-wage workers or by taking a lower profit. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/113 "2024-02-16T14:36:07Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I couldn’t find any official numbers, but the general consensus was that I&O profit margin is 2x to 3x (10-15%) fast food standards due to their business model and elevated prices. In N Out elevated prices? Have you been to an In N Out? The average price of a double double is about the same as the average price of a Big Mac, according to that Big Mac index, of $5.35. Last time I had a double double (in Phoenix in January), it was just north of $5, after being around $3-$4 pre-pandemic. And it’s significantly cheaper than places like Shake Shack or Five Guys (which, at least the latter is in the same league.) I’ve always marveled at how they made money, as they have _tons_ of employees (last time I went to one I counted about a dozen visibile employees), pay them well above industry standard, and their prices are not “elevated” at all, in my opinion. The corner fast food hot dog stand charges the same for hamburgers in my neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/114 "2024-02-16T14:38:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It has yet to be demonstrated that higher wages must result in higher consumer prices. Probably, but in theory the difference could come from the pay of owners or higher-wage workers or by taking a lower profit. This is a good point. Practically speaking, there’s only so much they can charge for their food before consumers stop paying. I won’t go to Five Guys because a hamburger, fries, and a drink will set me back about $15.00 which is not worth the price because their burgers aren’t _that_ good. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/115 "2024-02-16T14:41:49Z")
Has California made it so restaurant workers get the same minimum wage as everyone else? If not, that should have happened before this. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/116 "2024-02-16T14:43:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ve always marveled at how they made money, as they have _tons_ of employees (last time I went to one I counted about a dozen visibile employees), pay them well above industry standard, and their prices are not “elevated” at all, in my opinion. I’ve only been to In N OUt a few times since they’re on the west coast and I’m stuch here in the South. One of the things I immediately noticed was just how limited their menu is compared to many other fast food establishments. From what I can remember, my options were a burger, fries, a drink, and maybe a milkshake if I was feeling frisky. I can’t help but think having such a limited menu helps keep costs down. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/117 "2024-02-16T14:43:19Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I couldn’t find any official numbers, but the general consensus was that I&O profit margin is 2x to 3x (10-15%) fast food standards due to their business model and elevated prices. You realize that part of the cost of In-N-Out is due to its freshness, right? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/118 "2024-02-16T14:49:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ve always marveled at how they made money, as they have _tons_ of employees (last time I went to one I counted about a dozen visibile employees), pay them well above industry standard, and their prices are not “elevated” at all, in my opinion. The corner fast food hot dog stand charges the same for hamburgers in my neighborhood. It could be that places like In-N-Out are busy enough that they generate enough revenue to be profitable paying a high salary and selling product at low prices. A place with less business may not generate enough revenue to do that. Maybe that’s how things will shake out. The places which are generally packed all the time will be okay, but the places which aren’t as busy will have to do some juggling like raising prices, cutting staff, or closing stores. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/119 "2024-02-16T14:49:57Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’ve only been to In N OUt a few times since they’re on the west coast and I’m stuch here in the South. They’ve in Texas for a decade (there’s one down the street from my house), and they’ll be in Tennessee soon (and presumably Arkansas at some point if geography is any guide) > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > You realize that part of the cost of In-N-Out is due to its freshness, right? If so, even more inexplicable. Their prices in Texas aren’t out of line with other fast food joints but the pay is definitely better. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/120 "2024-02-16T15:01:41Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > From what I can remember, my options were a burger, fries, a drink, and maybe a milkshake if I was feeling frisky. I can’t help but think having such a limited menu helps keep costs down. That’s correct. Certainly a limited menu helps. And, clearly, they have their legions of loyal followers (I may be somewhat of one), as there’s only a handful of hours during the day where they aren’t just completely full inside, with a drive-through line to boot. OK, I’m looking through some pictures, and I see that my In n Out Double Double was $5.05. It’s breakfast time right now, so I can’t compare McDonald’s hamburger prices on my app right now, but that’s in the same ballpark, and the customer experience, quality of food, and treatment and pay of employees is much, much better at I&O. So it can be done to respectable profit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536.md?page=7)