# Another how far up shit creek is California thread ($20 minimum wage) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536 "2024-02-14T02:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/161 "2024-02-18T01:48:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > (f) People should learn a trade to earn more money and postpone children until they can afford to care for them. Well, in that case I certainly hope there isn’t any major organization in this country that’s trying to ban abortion and birth control. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/162 "2024-02-18T01:50:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, in that case I certainly hope there isn’t any major organization in this country that’s trying to ban abortion and birth control. Odd you didn’t mention adoption. Children in institutional poverty don’t get the proper social skills training and are less likely to take school seriously. Thus the cycle continues. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/163 "2024-02-18T02:31:28Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > It’s right there in the first sentence - shifting the goalposts to find another bugaboo to expound about. Some would like to think so, but it’s not right there at all. If you think it is, show your work. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/164 "2024-02-18T03:29:50Z")
You seem to think I’m disagreeing with you. Read it as pointing out octopus does not have a point, and is shifting the goalposts to something completely different because they have no argument in the current debate. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/165 "2024-02-18T04:12:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > OK, I could customize a McD’s double cheeseburger with a “regular” amount of lettuce, tomato, and mayonnaise (to simulate the burger sauce […] and that’s $4.99 The [McDs double cheeseburger](https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/double-cheeseburger.html#:~:text=450%20Cal.450%20Cal.,two%20melty%20American%20cheese%20slices.) doesn’t come with tomato or lettuce. It’s around 65 cents to add them so about $5.64 for the McD approximation . ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/166 "2024-02-18T05:41:31Z")
Cost of living isn’t going up because workers at the low end are getting a bit more money. Your argument does not hold up to even the most basic scrutiny, the numbers involved simply are way too small to influence prices in the whole economy. Up thread I did a back-of-an-envelope order of magnitude estimate of the numbers involved: please look at those numbers and correct my mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/167 "2024-02-18T05:59:21Z")
I know. That’s what I did to bring the cost up to $4.99 here. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/168 "2024-02-18T06:03:04Z")
I see now. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/169 "2024-02-18T13:36:41Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You seem to think I’m disagreeing with you. Read it as pointing out octopus does not have a point, and is shifting the goalposts to something completely different because they have no argument in the current debate. Oh. Yeah, a subtle response to a vague poorly-formed drive-by comment is irony too deep for me to catch. I’m still curious what octopus thought he was doing up there. Seemed like a typical weak attempt to hoist up lib’rul hyprocrisy by saying “people like you were saying something different about a situation with completely opposite dynamics 30 years ago. Gotcha!” But absent anyone showing the work, it’s pretty opaque. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/170 "2024-02-18T15:45:11Z")
Good point about the apprenticeships, but these days you can’t work your way through college like people could in the 70s and 80s. Costs have shifted. I still don’t know whether an apprentice’s wages would pay rent in L.A., but maybe. I just think that human labour has an inherent value: if we’re going to ask people to work in order to live, the wage floor should enable them to do that, even if we disrespect the work they choose. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/171 "2024-02-18T16:02:18Z")
To answer the op’s question I would use California’s past efforts and how they affect costs. Gas is $1.50 a gallon higher than Ohio. Housing is 3 times higher. They’ve restricted diesel trucks to those with engines that are 2010 or newer which limits available trucks and raises transportation costs. All they’ve done is raise the cost of living through legislation. This disproportionately affects the poor. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/172 "2024-02-18T16:14:42Z")
Raising the minimum wage for the poor disproportionately helps them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/173 "2024-02-18T16:19:53Z")
It’s not the 1st time they’ve done it and it’s not going to stop the cost of living issues that California has created. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/174 "2024-02-18T16:23:18Z")
It is going to make it worse or at least incrementally better? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/175 "2024-02-18T16:35:20Z")
I would say temporarily better and then worse. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/176 "2024-02-18T17:08:37Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > And Panera or anyplace else that bakes and sells bread as a stand-alone product is exempt altogether, because apparently the definition of “fast food” does not include bakeries that also sell other foods. That seems like such a weird exception. They don’t really explain why selling baked goods would make a FF business exempt. I wonder how many businesses affected by this law will now add on-site baked goods to their menu? Subway already bakes their bread in store. Selling their on-site baked bread standalone would be a trivial change for them and exclude them from this law. Other FF restaurants could easily install a small countertop oven to bake a few rolls or whatever that they have for sale. If they don’t sell, oh well. Leave them out until they turn moldy and then bake a few more. No worries about the extra hours it takes to bake the bread since the business won’t have to pay the workers $20/hr to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/177 "2024-02-18T17:32:21Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Raising the minimum wage for the poor disproportionately helps them. Assuming it doesn’t reduce the number of jobs, or the number of hours an employer will pay them to work. I’m not saying that will happen, but it’s the kind of unintended consequences we need to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/178 "2024-02-18T18:06:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In N Out elevated prices? Have you been to an In N Out? The average price of a double double is about the same as the average price of a Big Mac, according to that Big Mac index, of $5.35. In my neck of the woods, a big mac, fries and coke will run you about $17. A double-double, fries and a coke will run around $11. Yeah, I’m not seeing those elevated prices either, and the food isn’t only cheaper, it’s of a higher quality. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/179 "2024-02-18T18:39:23Z")
It’s been done. > **[To Evade Pre-Prohibition Drinking Laws, New Yorkers Created the World's Worst...](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/raines-sandwich)** > > It was everywhere at the turn of the 20th century. It was also inedible. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536/180 "2024-02-18T18:56:49Z")
The only thing I can think of is that it’s actually the reverse, that the definition wasn’t meant to exclude places like Panera and Subway but actual bakeries where you can buy coffee and a pastry but I don’t think there are any chains of 60 or more locations that do that. ( As far as why only fast food restaurants, it could have something to do with regulation - when NYC raised the minimum for fast food workers , my recollection is that it was done by some entity that only had jurisdiction over restaurants defined as “fast food” ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-how-far-up-shit-creek-is-california-thread-20-minimum-wage/997536.md?page=10)