# Another hypothetical about abortion. We have the technology! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501 "2016-07-21T16:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/1 "2016-07-21T16:20:52Z")
Inspired by [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=798992) thread. Science has perfected a way to incubate a fertilized egg from zygote to birth safely. The process for removing said zygote/fetus is no more invasive than getting an abortion. And no more costly either. Question: What rights does the father have? Should his desire to want to keep the baby supersede the mother’s wish to abort it? And furthermore, should the mother be liable for child support if the father does indeed want to keep the baby? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/2 "2016-07-21T16:24:54Z")
You mean grown in an external incubator machine, completely outside anyone’s body? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/3 "2016-07-21T16:33:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You mean grown in an external incubator machine, completely outside anyone’s body? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/4 "2016-07-21T16:39:35Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Yes. Then this would be like end-of-life, do we pull the plug terminal/euthanasia decisions. …I don’t know, I’m curious how that works. How is the voting tiebreaker? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/5 "2016-07-21T16:52:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You mean grown in an external incubator machine, completely outside anyone’s body? > [@Grrr](#): > > Yes. At this point, neither the father nor the mother should have greater say since the actual fetal development no longer is strictly a women’s health/safety issue. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/6 "2016-07-21T16:52:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Then this would be like end-of-life, do we pull the plug terminal/euthanasia decisions. > > …I don’t know, I’m curious how that works. How is the voting tiebreaker? I believe you may be reading to much into this. There’s a machine, capable of growing babies. It’s completely safe and fool proof. It puts no undue burden on the mother. Father wants to keep it. Mother wants to abort it. Who, in your opinion, should have the last word in this matter? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/7 "2016-07-21T16:54:25Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I believe you may be reading to much into this. > > There’s a machine, capable of growing babies. It’s completely safe and fool proof. It puts no undue burden on the mother. > > Father wants to keep it. Mother wants to abort it. > > Who, in your opinion, should have the last word in this matter? Given that it’s a matter of life and death, I’d have to give the tiebreaker to the vote for life. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/8 "2016-07-21T17:06:47Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > At this point, neither the father nor the mother should have greater say since the actual fetal development no longer is strictly a women’s health/safety issue. So the mother agreed at some point to the use of one of her eggs, and she wanted a baby but changed her mind? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/9 "2016-07-21T17:06:57Z")
I voted **Other**. I think the father’s wish to keep the baby should supersede, but I think it’s important to consider what the plans are if he does. The mother obviously doesn’t want to raise a child, but are she and the father a couple? What are the logistics for raising the child if it is incubated to term? Based on the mention of child support, I assume that the father and mother aren’t a couple. Effectively, this is a gender-flipped version of the “father wants mother to get an abortion because he doesn’t want to support a kid” scenario. Now that the hypothetical technology has eliminated the burden of carrying the child to term, the only remaining question is “does the woman have the final say because it’s her body?” In a perfect world, where the abortion issue had been long settled, and women couldn’t remember the last time they had to defend the sovereignty of their bodies against outside intrusion, this would be a no-brainer win for the father. In our world, the context is different enough to make things rather blurry. I still think the father’s wishes should rule out in this hypothetical, since few would advocate for a father in the inverse scenario. But I could understand why someone else would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/10 "2016-07-21T17:06:59Z")
It’s the mother’s decision to make. The fertilized egg/zygote/fetus is a part of her body, and she can keep it inside her, have it grown in a vat or simply discarded at her will. She need not even tell the father (or anyone else, except medical staff) about her pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/11 "2016-07-21T17:11:24Z")
If the woman no longer has to carry the fetus, then it changes the whole equation. Men don’t and shouldn’t have the right to determine what a woman should do with her body right now, but in this scenario, they wouldn’t be telling them what to do, so the father should have a say in it. However, there’s no reason his will should supersede the mother’s. If anything, there would be a more equal division of power. Maybe if they can’t agree, we flip a coin and heads we smash the fetus, tails we dont ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/12 "2016-07-21T17:12:56Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > It’s the mother’s decision to make. The fertilized egg/zygote/fetus is a part of her body, and she can keep it inside her, have it grown in a vat or simply discarded at her will. She need not even tell the father (or anyone else, except medical staff) about her pregnancy. Why isn’t it part of the father’s body too? It’s essentially a test-tube baby. Sperm + egg. It’s an \*\*\*external \*\*\*incubator. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/13 "2016-07-21T17:13:09Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > It’s the mother’s decision to make. The fertilized egg/zygote/fetus is a part of her body, and she can keep it inside her, have it grown in a vat or simply discarded at her will. She need not even tell the father (or anyone else, except medical staff) about her pregnancy. And it’s the father’s sperm inside that egg. If her intent is to abort it, why shouldn’t the father have the right to keep it if he wants it? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/14 "2016-07-21T17:15:35Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Maybe if they can’t agree, we flip a coin and heads we smash the fetus, tails we dont Oh come on. That’s just silly. That is not how a society governed by laws works. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/15 "2016-07-21T17:20:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why isn’t it part of the father’s body too? It’s essentially a test-tube baby. Sperm + egg. Gee, I really feel sorry for the half a million or so of would-be babies who ended up in a tissue paper and got flushed down the toilet the last time I jerked off… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/16 "2016-07-21T17:22:55Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > Gee, I really feel sorry for the half a million or so of would-be babies who ended up in a tissue paper and got flushed down the toilet the last time I jerked off… :rolleyes: Unless there were eggs in the tissue as well, this is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/17 "2016-07-21T17:42:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Unless there were eggs in the tissue as well, this is irrelevant. Maybe. But my view is: what stays in the woman belongs to the woman. Tough luck, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/18 "2016-07-21T17:45:39Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > Maybe. But my view is: what stays in the woman belongs to the woman. Tough luck, but that’s it. But that’s not the question being asked. We are asking about something that is no longer inside the woman. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/19 "2016-07-21T17:56:09Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > But that’s not the question being asked. We are asking about something that is no longer inside the woman. As long as it’s in her body, I strongly feel that it’s _hers_ decision to make whether it should stay there, be transferred to some other receptacle or removed and discarded. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/20 "2016-07-21T18:00:45Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > As long as it’s in her body, I strongly feel that it’s _hers_ decision to make whether it should stay there, be transferred to some other receptacle or removed and discarded. Let’s just say you hand me a diamond ring worth 10k and I then proceed to swallow it. I guess it’s mine, but after I shit it out, and decide to just flush it down the toilet, you’re good with that? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501.md?page=2)