# Another hypothetical about abortion. We have the technology! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501 "2016-07-21T16:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/61 "2016-07-22T18:01:50Z")
I actually do, under all circumstances i believe in the fundamental right for women to have abortion on demand. To be in full control of their own reproductive cycles at all times. Do you not think that some jilted, upset boyfriend may demand a continuing pregnancy (albeit under lab conditions) to hound, guilt, emotionally blackmail his ex partner? The outcome of an unwanted pregnancy should be decided by the woman. The male should support her decision not try to impose his will. The zygote or fetus has no right to be born if the woman doesn’t want this ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/62 "2016-07-22T18:18:39Z")
> [@manila](#): > > I actually do, under all circumstances i believe in the fundamental right for women to have abortion on demand. To be in full control of their own reproductive cycles at all times. > > Do you not think that some jilted, upset boyfriend may demand a continuing pregnancy (albeit under lab conditions) to hound, guilt, emotionally blackmail his ex partner? > > The outcome of an unwanted pregnancy should be decided by the woman. The male should support her decision not try to impose his will. > > The zygote or fetus has no right to be born if the woman doesn’t want this I disagree. First, a baby is not part of your reproductive system. As to your second point, that sword cuts both ways. Women can willfully keep the baby for all the same reasons you fear a man might. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/63 "2016-07-22T18:45:02Z")
Apart from the fact that an embryo/zygote/fetus is not a a baby. I think we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. Viable eggs are fertilized often, (if you insist I will hunt out some cites) but too late in the cycle are are expelled during normal menses. This is just nature. My main point is that a woman should have the right to control her reproductive cycle, nature notwithstanding I don’t know many women who use regular abortion as a method of contraception, its generally a heart searching decision. It goes on for years in some cases. But i still believe that this decision should be left to the woman, If the male wants to breed then it would be better all round that he finds a new partner with whom to breed and not force a continuing pregnancy in a laboratory. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/64 "2016-07-22T19:09:41Z")
> [@manila](#): > > I actually do, under all circumstances i believe in the fundamental right for women to have abortion on demand. To be in full control of their own reproductive cycles at all times. Setting aside the rights of the father, are you claiming that the developing embryo/fetus never has any rights whatsoever under any circumstances? To take an extreme point, surely you don’t think that it’s ethical for a mother to demand the abortion of a perfectly viable 8-3/4-month fetus on a whim? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/65 "2016-07-22T19:34:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Setting aside the rights of the father, are you claiming that the developing embryo/fetus never has any rights whatsoever under any circumstances? To take an extreme point, surely you don’t think that it’s ethical for a mother to demand the abortion of a perfectly viable 8-3/4-month fetus on a whim? Strangely enough, the argument against late-term abortions is not a “fetal rights” issue, but a “government rights” issue. The government, not the fetus, is the legal entity that has an interest in the continuation of the pregnancy. The fetus, even in a pregnancy that’s 99.99% to term, has no legal standing. Only the government has any standing to intervene against an abortion at that point. (The father has none at all.) This is why the pro-life ideology is a really big contradiction for people who want to limit the government’s power to regulate our lives. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/66 "2016-07-22T19:39:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Strangely enough, the argument against late-term abortions is not a “fetal rights” issue, but a “government rights” issue. The government, not the fetus, is the legal entity that has an interest in the continuation of the pregnancy. > > The fetus, even in a pregnancy that’s 99.99% to term, has no legal standing. Only the government has any standing to intervene against an abortion at that point. > … IANAL, but I believe the theory underlying that is that the government is responsible for protecting its citizens, especially those unable to protect themselves. So the government claims its rights _because_ it is protecting a little future voter. But I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/67 "2016-07-22T19:41:02Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Setting aside the rights of the father, are you claiming that the developing embryo/fetus never has any rights whatsoever under any circumstances? To take an extreme point, surely you don’t think that it’s ethical for a mother to demand the abortion of a perfectly viable 8-3/4-month fetus on a whim? Absolutely not, Late term abortions I class as over 26 weeks and are generally performed when the the woman’s life or developing fetus is at risk of catastrophic danger. > **[Third Trimester Abortion](https://www.drhern.com/third-trimester-abortion/)** > > Third trimester abortion patients seeking to terminate a desired pregnancy that has developed serious complications. Fetal anomaly or genetic disorder. bit of info for americans. I was more thinking about this poor lady refused assistance at 17 weeks > **[Death of Savita Halappanavar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar)** > > Savita Halappanavar (née Savita Andanappa Yalagi; 9 September 1981 – 28 October 2012) was a dentist of Indian origin, living in Ireland, who died from sepsis after her request for an abortion after a prolonged miscarriage was denied on legal grounds. In the wake of a nationwide outcry over her death, Irish voters passed in a landslide the Thirty-Sixth Amendment of the Constitution, which repealed the Eighth Amendment and empowered the Oireachtas parliament to make abortion legal. It d On 21 Oc... ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/68 "2016-07-22T20:24:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Setting aside the rights of the father, are you claiming that the developing embryo/fetus never has any rights whatsoever under any circumstances? To take an extreme point, surely you don’t think that it’s ethical for a mother to demand the abortion of a perfectly viable 8-3/4-month fetus on a whim? Yes, fetuses never have any rights under any circumstances. They aren’t people and only people have rights. However, you can’t really abort a healthy 8 and 3/4 month fetus; you have to deliver it by inducing labor. And as soon as it starts to breath air and scream, it’s a baby and does have rights. The mother can then sign a form terminating her parental rights and leave. Quite a few women who want to deliver on their own terms and their own timeline undergo “scheduled deliveries” that are slightly premature, based on their “own whims.” This wouldn’t be much different. Practically all late-term abortions are performed for medical reasons-the mother is dying, the fetus is dying or is severely malformed, and something has to be done, fast. All laws against late-term abortions do is hinder medical professions and harm women in making the best decisions and undergoing the best treatment. They don’t do any good at all. I don’t understand why people go around worrying about them or why they are so concerned about trying to regulate the medical decisions women make about their uteruses. Women are perfectly capable of making their own decisions about their own body parts and medical care and to pretend otherwise is incredibly sexist. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/69 "2016-07-22T20:31:55Z")
> [@](#): > > But your last sentence suggests that you think the mother should have the absolute right to terminate an embryo/fetus under all circumstances under this hypothetical where there is no incremental physical risk or inconvenience for her to allow the embryo/fetus to live. Yes. Men should also have the absolute right to terminate an embryo when there is no incremental physical risk or inconvenience to the egg-donor (aka, the embryo is not inside the woman). In a perfect world, no one should be forced to become a parent and people have the right to control what happens to their genetic material. In the real world, certain other factors tend to come into play. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/70 "2016-07-22T20:53:52Z")
What bothers me about hypotheticals like these is that they all sound like “what do we have to jigger in order for men to reclaim ultimate reproductive authority?” Well I’ll tell you what: let men incubate, birth, and nurse children. Then they can have ultimate reproductive authority. The symmetry-breaking is biological. Women happen to be the ones that incubate, birth, and nurse children. Too bad; live with it. Men are biologically taller and stronger. So women and men can’t compete in sports together, and more people want to watch men’s basketball than women’s basketball. Do we go all “Gee, what can we jigger to make men smaller and weaker so they no longer have height and strength superiority?” No, no one would ever debate that. But let women have a tiny advantage in one area, and whoa nellie, how can we equalize that advantage?!?! ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/71 "2016-07-22T23:17:43Z")
I also think that the poll is fundamentally flawed, I would had preferred other qualifications added, for example, the split between males and women expressing a viewpoint, and also, wtf does “other” mean? its weak and uninformative. I suspect its agenda driven ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/72 "2016-07-22T23:43:15Z")
> [@manila](#): > > I also think that the poll is fundamentally flawed, I would had preferred other qualifications added, for example, the split between males and women expressing a viewpoint, and also, wtf does “other” mean? > > its weak and uninformative. I suspect its agenda driven And your suspicions would be wrong. Over the years, I’ve argued many times on this board in favor of a woman’s right to choose. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/73 "2016-07-22T23:54:59Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > What bothers me about hypotheticals like these is that they all sound like “what do we have to jigger in order for men to reclaim ultimate reproductive authority?”… > [@manila](#): > > …I suspect its agenda driven… Assigning speculative sinister motives with no evidence whatsoever is weak sauce. If you can’t see the value in a hypothetical (and hardly far-fetched) technological scenario that may help us think more clearly about the complex interplay of ethical issues here, then that’s your loss. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/74 "2016-07-23T00:04:15Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > IANAL, but I believe the theory underlying that is that the government is responsible for protecting its citizens, especially those unable to protect themselves. So the government claims its rights _because_ it is protecting a little future voter. But I may be wrong. Yes. It’s comparable to how we have laws prohibiting the mistreatment of animals – but the animals themselves do not have any “rights” under our system of laws. Part of the true genius of Roe vs. Wade was that it showed how the government’s interest in protecting the unborn gradually increased over time. It was a brilliant compromise: it limits the mother’s rights a little, in the later stages of pregnancy, but protects them fully in the earlier stages. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/aeb1de/32.png) [@Lee\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_Q)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/75 "2016-07-23T22:37:08Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Yes. Oops, I misunderstood the OP! Voted that woman’s decision should override; would change my vote to man’s decision should supersede. ---
**Author:** ![accretion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@accretion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/accretion)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-hypothetical-about-abortion-we-have-the-technology/760501/76 "2016-07-28T05:13:27Z")
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