# Another 'I'm not' Gay Republican Goes Down for the Count **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932 "2007-11-01T22:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/81 "2007-11-02T21:04:22Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] You’re kidding, right, **Tomndebb**? You see no evidence? None? The Republicans may not have an official ‘We hate Gays’ plank, but they certainly do exhibit the sentiment in very public ways. What do you call denying Gays the right to marry, if not outward discrimination and hatred?.. [/QUOTE] [Summary of Major Dem Candidates (Present) Stances On Same Sex Marriage](http://365gay.com/lifestylechannel/Family/080307family.htm) SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN: Supports civil unions and thinks gay marriage is inevitable, though he does **not** support it. SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: She seems to both **oppose same-sex marriage** and an amendment against it, which, in political circles, is considered a compromise position. SEN. CHRIS DODD: Supports civil unions but **not** marriage. SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: “Gay marriage is an issue I feel internal conflict about and I continue to struggle with it.” (Read: Attorney-speak) SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Does **not** support gay marriage. GOV. BILL RICHARDSON: Equal Marriage: Supports civil unions. **The whole lot of 'em – Fucking Homophobes!!!** Though tom already pointed it out, the partisans here keep forgetting the entire political class is filled with hypocrites. I refuse to carry any party’s water, but find it interesting there’s so much broad brush painting of pubs here. Why is that their party’s primary voters (which by most accounts includes the highest percentage of ideologues) still have a pro-gay, one time drag queen in the number one spot in pre-election polls? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/82 "2007-11-02T21:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=JohnBckWLD **The whole lot of 'em – Fucking Homophobes!!!** Though tom already pointed it out, the partisans here keep forgetting the entire political class is filled with hypocrites. I refuse to carry any party’s water, but find it interesting there’s so much broad brush painting of pubs here. Why is that their party’s primary voters (which by most accounts includes the highest percentage of ideologues) still have a pro-gay, one time drag queen in the number one spot in pre-election polls?[/QUOTE] I personally associate the ‘homophobic’ mantra to the Repubs more so 'cause when there’s calls for constitutional amendments and so on, seems it’s republicans leading the way. 'Course my perceptions could be off… ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/83 "2007-11-02T21:12:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Vun! Two! Tree! oooh, dat’s a scary vun! I was incapacitated by laughter for a good five minutes by this image. > [@Liberal](#): > > That is a cogent, coherent, well thought out observation that makes perfect sense. Who are you, and what have you done with Der Trihs? In all serious, **Der Trihs** , that was a great example of how effective you can be when you keep it calm and rational. As someone who generally agrees with you on some level (if not word-for-word), I hope we get to see more of that and less of, you know, that other thing. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > I suppose there is something in the water in DC that causes this, because in retrospect all politicians are hypocrites in some fashion. But I digress. There’s a great book called “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” by Thomas Frank, a progressive Kansan, which deals with pretty much this very topic. It focuses on Kansas, of course, but has quite a bit to say about national politics too. He advances the position that a post-Vietnam conservative backlash is responsible for the whole mess, and supports it pretty well. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Clearly, those homosexuals who loudly and openly condemn homosexuality and work to restrict the rights of homosexuals while continuing to act on their own sexual impulses are hypocrites. However, that does not accurately translate into any sort of condemnation of Republicans as Republicans for hypocrisy. If you’ll forgive the metaphor, the Grand Ole Party has bended over and opened wide for neoconservatism and all of its trappings. The Party in general (if not _every single politician_ individually) and consistently Republican voters in general (if not _every single one_ individually) must accept an assload of responsibility for allowing it to happen, and for allowing “values voters”–ie, those opposed to the separation of church and state–to take over American politics to the extent that they have. > [@DoctorJ](#): > > Those rumors have flown around for years. Mitch was drafted in the late 60s and spent something like four days in the Army before being discharged, and he has never explained why or let anyone see the discharge paperwork. > > I don’t know if there’s anything to it. If it were a dishonorable discharge, AIUI he wouldn’t be able to apply for any federal government position without disclosing the discharge and the nature of same. I don’t recall whether the “gayness” discharges are Administrative or Dishonorable, though. Maybe someone with more military experience can chime in. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/84 "2007-11-02T21:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=JohnBckWLD] . . . . I refuse to carry any party’s water, but find it interesting there’s so much broad brush painting of pubs here. Why is that their party’s primary voters (which by most accounts includes the highest percentage of ideologues) still have a pro-gay, one time drag queen in the number one spot in pre-election polls? [/QUOTE] WAG, but could it be that Guiliani leads the polls right now because he has been selling himself as the man who can stand between the country and terrorists/terrorism, the issue the Republicans have been drum-beating the fear into the people about since the day after 9/11? He looks good on that note right now, despite his pro-gay, pro-choice stances. This will all change once the country finally does realize exactly who and what Rudy really is (like NYC already knows) adn what he’s selling. This will be well before they come to the precipice of doom that would be a Guiliani nomination/presidency. You know that “drag-queen” outfit was just for one-time skit, right? Using that against G. would be like Bush turning on Rove simply because of that one time when he tried to rap (and dance) and thinking he’d gone hip-hop gangsta on him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/85 "2007-11-02T21:16:55Z")
[QUOTE=JohnBckWLD] [Summary of Major Dem Candidates (Present) Stances On Same Sex Marriage](http://365gay.com/lifestylechannel/Family/080307family.htm) SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN: Supports civil unions and thinks gay marriage is inevitable, though he does **not** support it. SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: She seems to both **oppose same-sex marriage** and an amendment against it, which, in political circles, is considered a compromise position. SEN. CHRIS DODD: Supports civil unions but **not** marriage. SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: “Gay marriage is an issue I feel internal conflict about and I continue to struggle with it.” (Read: Attorney-speak) SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Does **not** support gay marriage. GOV. BILL RICHARDSON: Equal Marriage: Supports civil unions. **The whole lot of 'em – Fucking Homophobes!!!** Though tom already pointed it out, the partisans here keep forgetting the entire political class is filled with hypocrites. I refuse to carry any party’s water, but find it interesting there’s so much broad brush painting of pubs here. Why is that their party’s primary voters (which by most accounts includes the highest percentage of ideologues) still have a pro-gay, one time drag queen in the number one spot in pre-election polls? [/QUOTE] Although you have a point about the chickenshit positions of most Dems on same-sex marriage, I think there is still a substantive difference on their public stance towards homosexuality in general. They don’t typically go around saying it’s a sin or that gay sex, in itself, should be a crime (as some Republicans have said), nor do they join themselves at the hip to manically homophobic political groups like Focus On the Family. Plus we all get it that Presidential politics is a game that forces candidates to make the most moderate, baby-splitting statements they can get away with while they’re campaigning. People know that HRC does not really give a shit if lesbians get married and would not lift a finger to stop it if elected. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/86 "2007-11-02T21:17:25Z")
At least he has good taste… that’s a cute lil trick. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/87 "2007-11-02T21:41:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So basically what you’re saying is, “CLINTON GOT A BLOW JOB!” Didn’t the flavor wear off of that bubblegum like eight years ago? [/QUOTE] Apparently, Republicans _like_ having something in their mouth… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/88 "2007-11-02T21:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Tom not to be a dick but couldn’t one his flunkies plugged that into Wiki? Not saying they did but Wiki ain’t exactly a font of cross checked verified info. [/QUOTE] Absolutely. I simply cross-checked Wikipedia to see what was posted there, and drew no conclusion regarding its accuracy. (I figured that if there was counter evidence, it would then be presented here and duly inscribed on the edit pages at Wikipedia.) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/89 "2007-11-02T22:17:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Are you suggesting these recently outed “I’m not” gay Pubs are not True Scotsmen? [/QUOTE] You don’t **want** to know what _they_ put on their porridge! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/90 "2007-11-02T22:26:40Z")
> [@wring](#): > > I personally associate the ‘homophobic’ mantra to the Repubs more so 'cause when there’s calls for constitutional amendments and so on, seems it’s republicans leading the way. 'Course my perceptions could be off… According to the 2004 national party platform statements of the Republicans and Democrats, your perceptions are spot on. Here’s what the [Republican platform](http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf) (pdf) has to say on the so-called “Defense of Marriage”: > [@](#): > > We strongly support President Bush’s call for a Constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage, and we believe that neither federal nor state judges nor bureaucrats should force states to recognize other living arrangements as equivalent to marriage. We believe, and the social science confirms, that the well-being of children is best accomplished in the environment of the home, nurtured by their mother and father anchored by the bonds of marriage. We further believe that legal recognition and the accompanying benefits afforded couples should be preserved for that unique and special union of one man and one woman which has historically been called marriage. […] > > President Bush will also vigorously defend the Defense of Marriage Act, which was supported by both parties and passed by 85 votes in the Senate. This common sense law reaffirms the right of states not to recognize same-sex marriages licensed in other states. Here’s what the [Democratic platform](http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf) (pdf) has to say on that and other issues involving gays: > [@](#): > > We will enact the bipartisan legislation barring workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation. We are committed to equal treatment of all service members and believe all patriotic American should be allowed to serve our country without discrimination, persecution, or violence. […] > > We support full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and seek equal responsibilities, benefits, and protections for these families. In our country, marriage has been defined at the state level for 200 years, and we believe it should continue to be defined there. We repudiate President Bush’s divisive effort to politicize the Constitution by pursuing a “Federal Marriage Amendment”. Our goal is to bring Americans together, not drive them apart. Now, I have some serious beefs with the Democratic Party in general, and there are many Democratic politicians that I have very little esteem for. But I have to say, reading those two passages makes me feel proud to be a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/91 "2007-11-02T22:32:46Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] So, anyone else wondering what the hell **Mr. Moto** ’s post has to do with the OP? Or is that just me? [/QUOTE] Rule No. 1 for the Republican Political Operative: If a Republican is caught forcibly sodomizing a 10-year-old girl while his colleagues stand by watching and masturbating, immediately raise a hysterical hue and cry about a Democrat accused of kissing another man, but acquitted of any wrongdoing, during the local elections in Mississippi in 1839, in order to distract attention from your guy and focus it on those evil Democrats. **Moto** is doing precisely what he is accustomed to do. It’s too bad; he used to be a thoughtful, reasonable member here with interesting, out-of-the-ordinary viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/92 "2007-11-02T23:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Wrong. It was dismissed because the judge ruled that [EVEN IF EVERYTHING JONES ALLEGED WAS TRUE](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/04/03/jones.opinion/), that it still did not constitute sexual harrassment. Make sure you read sections II and III. The Lewinski stuff had no relevance to the dismissal (it explicitly says so in section III). Please try to inform yourself of the facts before you accuse somebody else of being dishonest. [/QUOTE] You have to follow the stink all the way to find the dog. But you want to stop at an early point in Clinton’s scandal and declare him exhonerated. But follow the [whole shitstorm](http://www.rbs0.com/Clinton.pdf) (PDF) all the way through the Supreme Court’s suspension of him, and you’ll stumble on how, because of the misconduct I previously described, he eventually had to pay Paula Jone’s legal fees. And for the record, I don’t accuse you of dishonesty, just of presenting only the information that supports your own position while hiding or not disclosing information that would counter it. You do this with everything from Clinton to the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/93 "2007-11-02T23:58:22Z")
> **[I'm Not Gay, but My Dick Is!](https://www.thestranger.com/columns/2007/11/01/429028/new-column)** > > I'm Not Gay, but My Dick Is! A Guest Editorial by Washington State Representative Richard Curtis (R-La Center) ---
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/94 "2007-11-02T23:59:55Z")
Isn’t there actually a gay Republican organisation that these politicians can join? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/95 "2007-11-03T00:17:00Z")
There are the Log Cabin Republicans, but this subset of the Republicans are “NOT GAY”. It would be like a Segregationist belonging to the Congressional Black Caucus. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/96 "2007-11-03T00:41:48Z")
Power to the Village People! Got me wondering, if maybe gay men are one of the few minorities to have never fostered a seperatist movement. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/97 "2007-11-03T00:52:41Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Nixon resigned after it became obvious that he couldn’t count on the support of Republicans in the Senate to shield him from impeachment. [/QUOTE] He couldn’t count on _enough_ Republicans to shield him. Anyway, the point is that if you want to go back and talk about past presidents, we can play the same game. That and this gay hypocrite are different critters. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/98 "2007-11-03T00:52:56Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Power to the Village People! Got me wondering, if maybe gay men are one of the few minorities to have never fostered a seperatist movement. [/QUOTE] Hrm. I wonder why that is? It probably has nothing to do with the fact that they have neither a specific geographical area nor a flag. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/99 "2007-11-03T00:57:14Z")
Oh, they’ve got a flag all right, just walk down to the Castro in San Francisco. As for why they’ve never fostered a separatist movement, duh…they already control the US, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932/100 "2007-11-03T01:04:28Z")
Its not any kind of issue at all, merely a glancing observation, and a slight head scratch. But I have personally know lesbian seperatists, and a number of black seperatists (at the time, it must be noted). Gets me to wondering if there’s any substantial difference in the way that a “gay” neighborhood comes to exist in comparison to, say, an Irish or Italian neighborhood. Perhaps just an errant thought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-im-not-gay-republican-goes-down-for-the-count/424932.md?page=6)