# Another innocent guy tasered **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084 "2010-09-08T18:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/1 "2010-09-08T18:20:18Z")
[OMG. Another in a long line of innocent citizens tased.](http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/09/police_use_stun_gun_on_homeown.html) So, this guy’s house is burning. He chooses to put himself at risk, battling the fire himself. Cops decide that in order to prevent him from harming himself they will zap him with a stun gun and arrest him. Only no charges get filed. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/2 "2010-09-08T18:24:40Z")
Did we read the same article? It SEEMS to be that a homeowner with a garden hose was getting in the way of the fire department, so they ask the cops to remove the homeowner from the scene. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/3 "2010-09-08T18:31:48Z")
And if he was killed or injured, the cops and the fire department would have been sued. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/4 "2010-09-08T18:42:40Z")
This seems to me to be a case in which it was warrented. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/5 "2010-09-08T18:46:05Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > This seems to me to be a case in which it was warrented. Yes: I’m usually very critical about over-use of tasers, but fires endanger not only the idiot trying to put it out with a garden hose, but also everyone around: the firefighters, and the neighbours who could lose their homes if the fire spreads. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/6 "2010-09-08T18:47:10Z")
Your definition of “innocent” includes “some dolt with a garden hose who is getting the way of professionals who are fighting a fire that has already spread across houses and who refuses to get out of the way”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/7 "2010-09-08T18:54:19Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > > [@tdn](#): > > > > This seems to me to be a case in which it was warrented. > > Yes: I’m usually very critical about over-use of tasers, but fires endanger not only the idiot trying to put it out with a garden hose, but also everyone around: the firefighters, and the neighbours who could lose their homes if the fire spreads. I concur. I hate the use of tasers as punishment devices or compliance devices (where there are no safety issues), but this case does not get my ire up. The question would have been “how can we get this twit out of the picture quickly, with minimal danger to himself, the police and firefighters” ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/8 "2010-09-08T18:54:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your definition of “innocent” includes “some dolt with a garden hose who is getting the way of professionals who are fighting a fire that has already spread across houses and who refuses to get out of the way”? > > Regards, > Shodan NC law is that once a fire department is dispatched to a scene, the senior officer in charge owns the scene. Therefore, the chief has the absolute right to order a homeowner detained because they are interfering with operations. The cops did right this time. (Shodan, I’m agreeing with you, BTW) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/9 "2010-09-08T19:16:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your definition of “innocent” includes “some dolt with a garden hose who is getting the way of professionals who are fighting a fire that has already spread across houses and who refuses to get out of the way”? > > Regards, > Shodan The article did not say he was interfering with the fire fighters. The home owner obviously thought he was helping them. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/10 "2010-09-08T19:17:47Z")
I do wonder why the cops just couldn’t have grabbed and removed him. Was tasering the first thing they tried? Need more details. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/11 "2010-09-08T19:18:10Z")
The article linked in the OP even includes this: > [@](#): > > Police say they tried three times to remove Damon Baker from the scene, but he wouldn’t budge, so officers had to subdue him. Its not like they tasered him for the fun of it, he refused a lawful order to leave the scene _three times_. Then they tasered his ass. I hope the five snakes that survived appreciate him. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/12 "2010-09-08T19:19:15Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The article did not say he was interfering with the fire fighters. The home owner obviously thought he was helping them. He thought wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/13 "2010-09-08T20:45:09Z")
The article linked by the OP is pretty short of details. According to [this story](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/bizarre&id=7656795) and [this one](http://www.fireengineering.com/index/articles/Wire_News_Display/1258432647.html), the police oficer’s attempt to remove Baker occurred _before_ the arrival of the firefighters. > [@](#): > > The dad, Damon Baker, tried to battle the flames with a garden hose, but when he got too close, police tried to pull him away. > > When he resisted, officers Tased him. > > “Had I been able to stay there a few minutes spraying it down before the fire department got here, we might not have lost all of our animals,” Baker said. and > [@](#): > > Damon Baker said he was using a garden hose to try to douse the flames before firefighters arrived. He acknowledged the water wasn’t much help, but said he refused to obey a North Belle Vernon police officer’s order to stop. > > The officer, Damon Baker said, pulled him away from the house. Damon Baker said the officer used a stun device on him when he went back toward the house. > > “It shocked the hell out of me,” he said. “I took a few steps back.” > > Damon Baker said he wasn’t injured, and he holds no ill will toward the officer. > > “It was a judgment call,” Damon Baker said. “In his opinion, he was right to do it. In my opinion, he was wrong for stopping me from protecting my property.” None of the articles i’ve found on this incident suggest that Baker was actually getting in the way of firefighters. I’m not sure if that changes people’s opinions about the tasering, but i thought the information might be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/14 "2010-09-08T21:40:28Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The article linked by the OP is pretty short of details. > > According to [this story](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/bizarre&id=7656795) and [this one](http://www.fireengineering.com/index/articles/Wire_News_Display/1258432647.html), the police oficer’s attempt to remove Baker occurred _before_ the arrival of the firefighters. > > > [@](#): > > > > The dad, Damon Baker, tried to battle the flames with a garden hose, but when he got too close, police tried to pull him away. > > > > When he resisted, officers Tased him. > > > > “Had I been able to stay there a few minutes spraying it down before the fire department got here, we might not have lost all of our animals,” Baker said. > > and > > > [@](#): > > > > Damon Baker said he was using a garden hose to try to douse the flames before firefighters arrived. He acknowledged the water wasn’t much help, but said he refused to obey a North Belle Vernon police officer’s order to stop. > > > > The officer, Damon Baker said, pulled him away from the house. Damon Baker said the officer used a stun device on him when he went back toward the house. > > > > “It shocked the hell out of me,” he said. “I took a few steps back.” > > > > Damon Baker said he wasn’t injured, and he holds no ill will toward the officer. > > > > “It was a judgment call,” Damon Baker said. “In his opinion, he was right to do it. In my opinion, he was wrong for stopping me from protecting my property.” > > None of the articles i’ve found on this incident suggest that Baker was actually getting in the way of firefighters. > > I’m not sure if that changes people’s opinions about the tasering, but i thought the information might be relevant. It (possibly) changes mine. I don’t think he should have been stopped as long as he was not adding to the problem. Once the firefighters got there, then I want him out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/15 "2010-09-08T21:45:17Z")
If there’s one thing the Pit needed, it was definitely another taser thread. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/16 "2010-09-08T21:47:19Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > It (possibly) changes mine. I don’t think he should have been stopped as long as he was not adding to the problem. Once the firefighters got there, then I want him out of the way. The article cited in the OP said: > [@](#): > > When firefighters arrived on the scene, one homeowner was trying to fight the flames with a garden hose. Does that change your mind again? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/17 "2010-09-08T21:54:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > [OMG. Another in a long line of innocent citizens tased.](http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/09/police_use_stun_gun_on_homeown.html) > > So, this guy’s house is burning. He chooses to put himself at risk, battling the fire himself. Cops decide that in order to prevent him from harming himself they will zap him with a stun gun and arrest him. Only no charges get filed. > > :mad: Sigh. > [@](#): > > Police say they tried three times to remove Damon Baker from the scene, but he wouldn’t budge, so officers had to subdue him. Completely justified. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/18 "2010-09-08T22:35:08Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > > [@Algher](#): > > > > It (possibly) changes mine. I don’t think he should have been stopped as long as he was not adding to the problem. Once the firefighters got there, then I want him out of the way. > > The article cited in the OP said: > > > [@](#): > > > > When firefighters arrived on the scene, one homeowner was trying to fight the flames with a garden hose. > > Does that change your mind again? That is why I put in the (possibly) and explained my personal on the net criteria for jumping to a tasering conclusion! 😃 If he is in the way of the firefighters and refuses to get out of the way - the use of force is legit in my eyes. We have a couple of different articles with what appears to be contradictory bits of information regarding the homeowner. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/19 "2010-09-08T23:31:08Z")
Eh, its a Pittsburgh denizen. They should tase the whole city. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084/20 "2010-09-09T00:29:24Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Does that change your mind again? No, it really doesn’t. Even with one of those adjustable nozzles with a jet setting, you’re not going to get enough water pressure off a household garden hose to be able to stay a safe distance from a fire that big. You’re just not. So the question becomes this: are law enforcement officers justified in using minor force to prevent someone doing something that’s liable to get themselves killed? Well, yeah, I think they are. I mean, what kind of Pit thread would we be having if they’d just stood there and watched while this guy made himself a crispy critter? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-innocent-guy-tasered/553084.md?page=2)