# Another Iraqi Smoking Gun, and the Dog That Didn't Bark **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262 "2005-05-03T19:38:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/1 "2005-05-03T19:38:59Z")
“But, Holmes, the dog _didn’t_ bark!” “Yes, I know that, that’s the whole bloody point, you malodorous toffee nosed medical twit!” Reference point: the following excerpt from _Washington Monthly_ (yes, a blog, but the link to the original lies therein, should any verification be needed…) > **[Washington Monthly Magazine](https://washingtonmonthly.com/)** > > We’re an independent voice, listened to by insiders and willing to take on sacred cows—liberal and conservative. > [@](#): > > …C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action… There’s more, of course, but that isn’t the main thrust of my dismay. I already pretty much knew this, so did you, if you’ve the good sense God gave a goose. Who was that? Who kept characterizing every criticism of The Leader as a mindless repitition of BUSHLIEDBUSHLIEDBUSHLIED!!! Well, yes. He did. At least on those occassions when he pretended that he hadn’t made up his mind, that he was open to a negotiated, peaceful solution. Lying through his teeth, so famously well tended. Now, this is several days old. I waited this long just to see if my original apprehension proved justifiable. Yeppers. Sho’ nuff. The much vaunted liberal media rolled over on its back and offered its tummy to be rubbed. Not a sound, nary a whisper. “…and now we go to Victor Vacuous, who’s talking with Sandra Bullock’s Karmic advisor, about her responsibility in making _Runaway Bride_, and its influence on these shatteringly important events…” “…Sorry to break in, but Jim Jutchin is talking to a veterinary psychologist on the impact of Laura Bush’s revelations about George whacking off a horse…” It would appear that this story was lost in glare of such seismic occurances. But entirely lost. Nobody, but nobody. Hand the liberal media a big fat juicy bombshell and…they ignore it. Zero, zip, zilch, nada damn thing. Why? Here’s my take, and the substance of my rant: it isn’t news. Everybody knows, and accountability is a crock. Its just another irrefutable piece of solid evidence, but there’s nobody left to convince anymore, no more Thanksgivings to await, all the shoes have dropped. Tony Blair stands poised to be re-elected, as though it never happened. GeeDubya has already _been_ elected, skating on a sheen of Teflon and “moral values”, which conveniently don’t include candor or honor. We don’t care, we’re worn out. Our best and bravest die every day in a worthless and empty cause, but all our outrage is spent. Untold numbers of patriots sacrificed to put power in the hands of the people, and we scratch our nuts and change the channel. Don’t mind growing old, hate the idea of growing weary. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/2 "2005-05-03T19:42:24Z")
Translation: _Gee, I \* REALLY \* don’t like President Bush, and it really upsets me that the majority of voters don’t share my outrage._ Wow, that IS news. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/3 "2005-05-03T19:45:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Translation: > > Gee, I REALLY don’t like President Bush, and it really upsets me that the majority of voters don’t share my outrage. Close. Try: \*Gee, I REALLY don’t like President Bush’s deceiving the American people about the reasons for starting a war, and it really upsets me that the majority of voters don’t share my outrage. \* ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/4 "2005-05-03T19:48:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Translation: > > _Gee, I \* REALLY \* don’t like President Bush, and it really upsets me that the majority of voters don’t share my outrage._ > > Wow, that IS news. It should upset anyone with a rudimentary sense of honor that we live in a country where the administration can lie through their teeth to start an unjustified war and nobody cares. It upsets me that my fellow countrymen are such idiots. It upsets me that even you - an intelligent and honest man - routinely dismiss this as just more Bush-bashing instead of the horror that it is. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/5 "2005-05-03T19:53:46Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > It should upset anyone with a rudimentary sense of honor that we live in a country where the administration can lie through their teeth to start an unjustified war and nobody cares. It upsets me that my fellow countrymen are such idiots. It upsets me that even you - an intelligent and honest man - routinely dismiss this as just more Bush-bashing instead of the horror that it is. Exactly. And it tastes like ashes to hear people talking about ‘moral values’ and then see them excuse lying… to hear them talk about accountability and then see them excuse the OSP’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/6 "2005-05-03T19:54:58Z")
But 9/11 changed everything! Didn’t you hear? To the story itself, it doesn’t have legs for perhaps another reason: It isn’t a smoking gun. It’s just reporting someone’s impressions of the working environment at the time. It does not quote Dubya directly, or refer to any order he himself had given, in specific enough terms to rub into anyone’s face. **Bricker** , is there anything you can’t excuse him for? Is there no possible criticism that you might not dismiss so peremptorily? Do you in fact hold your leadership to any standards at all? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/7 "2005-05-03T19:56:37Z")
Yup. Sorry, Bush supporters, but you will never be able to get away with just shrugging this issue off. Misleading the public into a war of aggression is a HUGE deal by anybody’s standards. Either you will have to defend your guy against the charge every time some additional evidence for it comes up, or you will have to acknowledge that it’s true. You will never be able to brush it off by saying “Aw, this isn’t a real issue, you just don’t like Bush”. It IS a real issue. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/8 "2005-05-03T20:00:23Z")
Sure he can. He just did. The fact may be astonishing, Lord knows, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/9 "2005-05-03T20:09:52Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > It should upset anyone with a rudimentary sense of honor that we live in a country where the administration can lie through their teeth to start an unjustified war and nobody cares. It upsets me that my fellow countrymen are such idiots. It upsets me that even you - an intelligent and honest man - routinely dismiss this as just more Bush-bashing instead of the horror that it is. According to the WP this a.m., the chickens may be coming home to roost in Britain as a result of numerous leaks that are being dismissed by Blair as more handwringing over Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/10 "2005-05-03T20:10:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Translation: > > _Gee, I \* REALLY \* don’t like President Bush, and it really upsets me that the majority of voters don’t share my outrage._ > > Wow, that IS news. Don’t suppose you’d care to comment on the merits of the memo, would you? I mean, golly, our bestest ally in the war says, in a contemporaneous document, that Bush had decided to go to war but was still working on an excuse to do so, and that’s not anything worth paying attention to? ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/11 "2005-05-03T20:13:55Z")
> [@](#): > > **elucidator** - We don’t care, we’re worn out. Our best and bravest die every day in a worthless and empty cause, but all our outrage is spent. Untold numbers of patriots sacrificed to put power in the hands of the people, and we scratch our nuts and change the channel. > > Don’t mind growing old, hate the idea of growing weary. _Sigh_ You know, I’ll admit it-I am weary. Seems like I spent an inordinate amount of time from the age of 17 to the age of 22 doing everything in my puny power to end the conflict in Vietnam. Weeknights and weekends working with the V.V.A.W.- manning the storefront or actively engaging in or planning protests. Working the phone, passing out leaflets, getting arrested while exercising my right to civil disobedience. I really really hoped that my country wouldn’t require that kind of concentrated determination again. I’m actively involved in working against the war in Iraq but I’ll admit that I don’t have the energy that I did back then. It’s not that I care any less but I have different constraints and obligations that eat up my time now. And I am equally discouraged by the indifference that I see expressed on a near daily basis. I honestly don’t know what it will take to make majority realize that this is an unjust and unnecessary war that they personally must work against -perhaps footage of the body bags being blasted across the news every night would do it. I just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/12 "2005-05-03T20:15:20Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Don’t suppose you’d care to comment on the merits of the memo, would you? I mean, golly, our bestest ally in the war says, in a contemporaneous document, that Bush had decided to go to war but was still working on an excuse to do so, and that’s not anything worth paying attention to? What does the phrase “totem pole hearsay” mean? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/13 "2005-05-03T20:16:44Z")
Chicken. ---
**Author:** ![GKW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@GKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GKW)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/14 "2005-05-03T20:26:06Z")
The _Wall Street Journal_ reported this yesterday in a short blurb about Tony Blair’s re-election. It was buried on the international page (pg 16). I hear a lot of people saying, “It doesn’t matter why we went to war, we’re there now - so we need to move on and deal with it.” It matters to me and I think the US is doing a piss poor job of of “dealing” with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/15 "2005-05-03T20:27:34Z")
**Bricker:** _What does the phrase “totem pole hearsay” mean?_ Well, when I looked it up just now, it seemed to be defined as a legal expression referring to “hearsay within hearsay”. But could you tell us what that has to do with the content of the recently-released Lord Goldsmith memo? I’m serious, **Rick** ol’ buddy: this attitude of “oh, this is a trivial matter, you just don’t like Bush” is **never** going to fly successfully. Either gird on your armor and defend the President sincerely, or stay out of the way of this subject altogether. Trying to laugh it off, by acting as though the charge of waging war illegally or on false grounds is just no big deal, merely shocks and offends people even more. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/16 "2005-05-03T20:28:34Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Chicken. You’re asking me to accept, for the truth of the matter, the memo writer’s impressions of the briefing conductor’s impressions of the way the matter was being handled by the Bush administration. _IF_ I accept that the memo writer was honest, and _IF_ I accept that his impression was accurate, and _IF_ I accept the the person giving the briefing accurately understood and portrayed his bosses’ approach, and _IF_ I accept that this accuracy of impressions approach is true, unfiltered, and correct all the way back to the President… then that’s truly disturbing. But those are assumptions I’m not prepared to make. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/17 "2005-05-03T20:30:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But those are assumptions I’m not prepared to make. The symbol of the Republican Party these these days should be not an elephant, but an ostrich. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/18 "2005-05-03T20:32:22Z")
**Bricker** , fair enough. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/19 "2005-05-03T20:33:33Z")
Sure he can. He just did. The fact may be astonishing, Lord knows, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/20 "2005-05-03T20:36:57Z")
It’s a simple matter of “nobody cares, so to hell with it all”. As an antiBusher in good standing, I can only stay at a certain level of angry outrage for so long, before it becomes exhausting. There is the sense of beating one’s head against a wall. You can stand it for a while, then it gets old. You finally throw your hands up and say to hell with it all. No matter who finds what report or what evidence or what direct quote, I don’t think it will make a damn bit of difference. It’s called fatigue and despair, seasoned with just a dash of disgust. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262.md?page=2)