# Another Iraqi Smoking Gun, and the Dog That Didn't Bark **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262 "2005-05-03T19:38:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/221 "2005-05-06T21:46:05Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > What does Iraq, a sanctioned and crippled country, have which makes it worth it to the UK to become the US’s enemy? I figure Blair and co realized the backlash which would arise from refusing to support the war from the US. See how the French have been villified? It’s easy as apple pie to villify the French. Much harder to do that with our well-loved, language-sharing British brothers. I believe Tony Blair backed Bush on the war because he honestly shared the same delusion as Bush that it was the right course of action, not because he secretly thought it was a bad move but was afraid of consequences and repercussions from the Yanks. > [@](#): > > Frankly I think the involvement of the UK is the only saving grace in the whole thing. Areas patrolled by the UK troops are more peaceful and their troops don’t seem to offend the Iraqis like the US troops do. They’ve taken far fewer losses, even proportionally. This is primarily because the British troops are responsible for the Shiite south, where the population is still supportive of the political process (i.e., supportive of majority politics that keeps them in charge of the Sunnis) and the removal of the regime that had kept them underheel (or under dirt) for many decades. Roughly the same situation as for American troops in Kurdish areas, where there is little unrest except where there is conflict with Sunni populations, such as in Mosul. The Brits are widely praised for their soft-handed approach, but the American military takes it on the chin because mostly they’re the ones standing in the middle of the civil war in the center of the country. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/222 "2005-05-06T23:12:59Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > Breaking News: > > Bush Wanted to Invade Iraq as Early as Summer 2002 > > ALSO … > > Water Found to be Wet > > AND … > > Pope Benedict XVI Admits Catholicism > > NOT TO MENTION … > > Bear Feces Found in Wooded Area You forgot, as **Bricker** and **Debaser** have demonstrated, Bush Apologists Still In Denial. ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/223 "2005-05-06T23:32:23Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Chicken. “Or fish?” Anyway, GWB defies the laws of physics by sucking and blowing at the same time. Everyone who has heard this and other tidbits of Bushlogic should be horrified. But wait, what is this - the fact that for every 300 hours of Rush and co. being broadcast on the daily radio shows, only 5 hours of “liberal” information is being put out there. Why? Because radio stations are owned by huge corporations, who are all in bed with GWB and his family and friends. If you are interested, read the article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in the recent Vanity Fair. It is well-written and chock full of inside info. Like the fact that once a week, the media people are told which words to punch in their newscast all week - “It was a _bold_ move by the President.” “In a _strong show of support_, the Transylvanian government sent 3 soldiers to Iraq.” The question is not “are we paranoid” but “are we paranoid enough”? That one goes both ways, I think. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/224 "2005-05-07T00:06:10Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > It’s easy as apple pie to villify the French. Much harder to do that with our well-loved, language-sharing British brothers. I believe Tony Blair backed Bush on the war because he honestly shared the same delusion as Bush that it was the right course of action, not because he secretly thought it was a bad move but was afraid of consequences and repercussions from the Yanks. I agreee with a slight caveat. We need to define “right course of action.” IOW, if its taken to mean neocon dreams as defined by the PNAC agenda, yes, indeed, I do think that both Blair and Aznar, bought into the illusion and bet heavily on coming up roses once the hurdles (read: reality) were cleared. Meaning that there was a lot of political and economic capital to be made by betting on Bush’s surreal USA. The US consolidates its status as the world’s sole hyperpower and England/Blair and Spain/Aznar bask in its reflected glory. Faith-based politics at its betting worst. ---
**Author:** ![guestforever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@guestforever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guestforever)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/225 "2005-05-13T14:36:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nope. I’m content with the current situation, in which the insular left-wing community is convinced of Bush’s evil, but the general public - the voters - not so much. > > Before the election, you all prattled on about this, and, lo! Bush was re-elected by millions of votes. > > The next election is the 2006 mid-terms, and the GOP will not lose a single net seat in the House or the Senate. > > So why do I have to worry about convincing anyone else? I’m perfectly happy with the status quo. My party controls the House, the Senate, and the White House, and that’s not changing. So why should I worry about convincing anyone? Because it has to do with a little thing called truth and integrity and not ideologic, insular, party line, solidaritous, robotic behavior. I do believe it is obvious that there are some who simply don’t share those values–of truth and personal integrity. You can protest that charge all you like, but actions are what count here. The words are hollow. insular? Wow. I’d say your comments prove a real thick insular universe. Moving on… I haven’t had a chance to read through all the posts yet, but has the word impeach come up yet? The congressmen that are asking for an explanation from the president used words like lack of “integrity” and “misleading facts” in reference to the admins’ representation of Iraq to congress. A first class impeachable offense. I believe those words are even used specifically within the protocol for impeachable offenses. Purposely misleading congress, as well as personal (or collective) character issues unbecoming of the office. And other business… Does anyone still feel like vigorously defending the idea of a ‘liberal’ press? There is NO such thing as teflon concerning these presidents. Nothing sticks when nothing is thrown. If you through enough mud, something will always stick. If you throw small amounts or none, there’s plenty of time to wipe it off. ---
**Author:** ![guestforever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@guestforever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guestforever)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/226 "2005-05-13T14:56:18Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So, you’re tired. Physically and emotionally. You’re drained. I can see that, I really can. But, now you’ve found a new hobby! A new way to play the same old game. It’s easy, too! You don’t even have to learn any new tricks or rules. It’s called **Bricker** bashing! The same bizarre, unfounded, insane type of allegations that are regularly made against Bush can be targetted at anyone. Suddenly you all aren’t so tired anymore. > > **Bricker** , like most sane people, doesn’t even agree with your repeated mantra that **BUSHliedBUSHLIEDbushLIED**! How dare he. So, he is the perfect target for your petty rage. Since he dares to disagree with you all, it’s clear that you feel free from any restraint in your attacks on him. Make stuff up and attribute it to him. Ignore the rules of debate and make the onus on him to prove everything, even your own statements. Take what he posts and twist it beyond recognition to make him look EVIL. Keep at it, and you can make him out to be as evil as Bush even! I am in complete argeement with debaser here. Bricker bashing is truly funny. What’s the point. If he is making an argument that is ludicrous or not even addressing the issue, then why does he draw so much attention. Bricker may be a great guy and all (I have no idea, not around enough to), but his ‘totem’ argument was clearly and summarily dismissed without a reply (unless you count ‘I don’t reply to gabage’ as his reply. btw, what the heck. I didn’t see the garbage. huh???) and therefore his arguments have been dismissed. There’s nothing wrong with a counterargument. Problem is there has to be one. Without one, the response should be toward the original and nothing else. I don’t mean to sound preachy, but this whole diversion–read digression–seems odd. Why let someone without evidence detract from the issue. It almost seems as if the crowd doesn’t have enough conviction in its own ideas to allow the ‘noise’ to quiet of its own accord. Debaser must be right. It is a case of Bricker bashing. Chest puffing. I’m sorry, but Bush provides plenty of ammo to have a full chest, we don’t need to scream at one of his soldiers (just working on more righteous indignation?). Let the soldier be the soldier and you do your job. It’s clear there are no conversions here. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/227 "2005-05-13T16:22:37Z")
> [@guestforever](#): > > I am in complete argeement with debaser here. Bricker bashing is truly funny. What’s the point. If he is making an argument that is ludicrous or not even addressing the issue, then why does he draw so much attention. Bricker may be a great guy and all (I have no idea, not around enough to), but his ‘totem’ argument was clearly and summarily dismissed without a reply (unless you count ‘I don’t reply to gabage’ as his reply. btw, what the heck. I didn’t see the garbage. huh???) and therefore his arguments have been dismissed. There’s nothing wrong with a counterargument. Problem is there has to be one. Without one, the response should be toward the original and nothing else. I don’t mean to sound preachy, but this whole diversion–read digression–seems odd. Why let someone without evidence detract from the issue. It almost seems as if the crowd doesn’t have enough conviction in its own ideas to allow the ‘noise’ to quiet of its own accord. Debaser must be right. It is a case of Bricker bashing. Chest puffing. I’m sorry, but Bush provides plenty of ammo to have a full chest, we don’t need to scream at one of his soldiers (just working on more righteous indignation?). Let the soldier be the soldier and you do your job. It’s clear there are no conversions here. IMHO. Well, yes, you do indeed sound quite “preachy,” because as someone who has actually read the whole thread, I find that absolutely nothing that **Bricker** has posted has gone unrebutted – including copious facts and cites that, not surprisingly, have been totally ignored. OTOH, I’ll note that the topic that has gone all but ignored by our steemed friend **Bricker** and the rest of Bush’s army of drones, is the original question put forth by the OP. Not like he is the only one asking it: [Smoking Gun Memo? Iraq Bombshell Goes Mostly Unreported in US Media](http://mathaba.net/x.htm?http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=212274) > [@Joe Conason](#): > > Are Americans so jaded about the deceptions perpetrated by our own government to lead us into war in Iraq that we are no longer interested in fresh and damning evidence of those lies? Or are the editors and producers who oversee the American news industry simply too timid to report that proof on the evening broadcasts and front pages? Should the highly steemed **Bricker** , care to stop beating around the Bush and tackle the issue at hand head on, I’m all ears. But as long as his only defense continues to be directly drawn from The School Of The Three Blind Monkeys, scorn is all he is getting from yours truly. Nothing else he deserves, IMNSHO. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/228 "2005-05-13T17:51:52Z")
I think, **elucidator** , why the dog won’t bark is because it won’t do any good. And I say this will all sadness. Even when Bush’s approval ratings fall to the 40s and 30s, even if a majority of Americans call for action, I don’t think anything will happen. The Republicans control all - even if a majority called for impeachment, it would never go through because there aren’t enough Democrats. And so nothing will change, and we’ll have to continue with this clown for three more years. Three more long years. Three more hopeless, depressing, horrible years in which we see the name of our good and beloved country increasingly besmirched as Bush and his cronies drag it through more and more mudholes. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/229 "2005-05-13T17:56:30Z")
Yeah, I’m a little depressed watching the decline and downfall of my country. And it all started in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262/230 "2005-05-13T18:01:01Z")
For what it’s worth, the article was printed in the L.A. Daily News. It was buried in the back, among the other “unimportant” minor articles. Something of this seriousness should have been front page stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-iraqi-smoking-gun-and-the-dog-that-didnt-bark/302262.md?page=11)