# Another Israeli mole uncovered - Why does Israel feel it can spy on us with impunity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885 "2004-08-28T01:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/41 "2004-08-28T07:38:26Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Perhaps I was being unclear. > Our diplomatic relationship with Israel includes and entails us giving them aid. > Our diplomatic posture with Israel is one of alliance and aid. No. Our _goodwill_ entails us giving them aid. We’ll maintain diplomatic relations, even without direct aid. Why we should keep giving aid to a country that assists a potential enemy (China) and attempts to influence our internal political process is beyond me; Maybe you could explain it? > [@](#): > > Is that supposed to be a question mark instead of a period after ‘cite’? No. It was a short statement, but let me expand on it for you: You are making some loopy assertions. They may or may not be true. Until you provide a cite, I’ll assume you are just making small-talk. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/42 "2004-08-28T07:50:42Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > No. Our _goodwill_ entails us giving them aid. We’ll maintain diplomatic relations, even without direct aid. Why we should keep giving aid to a country that assists a potential enemy (China) and attempts to influence our internal political process is beyond me; Maybe you could explain it? Okay… we’ve been their ally since their inception (or at the very least we gave them international legitimacy in short order), we’ve given them aid since close to their inception, thus, the nature of our diplomatic relationship is one of aid and alliance. You are technically correct in that all diplomacy is not equivalent to aid, but in this case, you are suggesting a radical departure of five decades of diplomatic posture and a radical restructuring of our relationship with Israel. > [@Brutus](#): > > No. It was a short statement, but let me expand on it for you: You are making some loopy assertions. They may or may not be true. Until you provide a cite, I’ll assume you are just making small-talk. Which assertions are ‘loopy?’ Please question me on specific ones and I will answer. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/43 "2004-08-28T07:53:44Z")
Upon reflection I think I am being too narrow in my interpretation of our diplomatic relationship with Israel. It would not be a suspension of diplomacy. It would be a suspension of our long standing diplomatic policy. So I retract my earlier statement as factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/44 "2004-08-28T08:00:07Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Okay… we’ve been their ally since their inception (or at the very least we gave them international legitimacy in short order), we’ve given them aid since close to their inception, thus, the nature of our diplomatic relationship is one of aid and alliance. You’ll probably want to bone up a bit on that history; You’ll note that Israels’ weapons were French and British up until the early Seventies, not American. That aid didn’t begin until well after Israel was established. Military ‘grants’ didn’t begin until after '73, IIRC. > [@](#): > > You are technically correct in that all diplomacy is not equivalent to aid, but in this case, you are suggesting a radical departure of five decades of diplomatic posture and a radical restructuring of our relationship with Israel. Sure thing, and a history of spying on us _should_ have us radically rethink that policy of no-questions-asked military aid. > [@](#): > > Which assertions are ‘loopy?’ > Please question me on specific ones and I will answer. Well, you already answered: > [@](#): > > If you are asking for a cite as to what countries have been caught spying on us, I do not have one. > Nor do I have a cite for my contention that any government that wants to be informed has to spy on other countries. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/45 "2004-08-28T08:14:53Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > You’ll probably want to bone up a bit on that history; You’ll note that Israels’ weapons were French and British up until the early Seventies, not American. That aid didn’t begin until well after Israel was established. Military ‘grants’ didn’t begin until after '73, IIRC. Awwwww. I’ll want to bone up on history, yessiree… Maybe, just maybe, **you** are the one who should bone up on history. [October 21 : The U. S. gives Israel a 65 million dollar grant in aid, with 50 million to be used in immigrant absorption and the remainder for economic development.](http://www.jafi.org.il/education/jafi75/timeline4b.html#1) That was in 1951. You will also notice that in my text that you quoted I said “we’ve given them aid since close to their inception”. So your refrences to their military is irrelevant with respect to what I’ve said. > [@Brutus](#): > > Sure thing, and a history of spying on us _should_ have us radically rethink that policy of no-questions-asked military aid. Sure thing about what? Doesn’t everybody spy on everybody else? I thought it was a policy of “our interests are advanced by aiding you, so we’ll do it.” But maybe we’re in Israel’s pocket and we just do whatever they say, no-questions-asked. :smack: > [@Brutus](#): > > Well, you already answered: Fair enough, once you’ve read my newer text, what do you think is ‘loopy’? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/46 "2004-08-28T10:41:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Sure thing about what? > Doesn’t everybody spy on everybody else? > I thought it was a policy of “our interests are advanced by aiding you, so we’ll do it.” > But maybe we’re in Israel’s pocket and we just do whatever they say, no-questions-asked. :smack: No, everybody doesn’t spy on everybody else. Especially not ‘spying’ with the intent of influencing the internal political process of another nation. Especially not when that nation is probably your ‘best friend’ (as far as nations go) in the world. Kick me out a cite about French and British and Italian spies that we caught over here. Or are they so clever that we just havn’t caught them yet? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lodoen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@Jeff\_Lodoen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lodoen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/47 "2004-08-28T10:52:02Z")
Think we have spies in Israel? I’d be surprised if we didn’t. I’d call it incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/48 "2004-08-28T10:52:44Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Awwwww. > I’ll want to bone up on history, yessiree… Fair enough. I was wrong on that one; I assumed we didn’t give aid to Israel until later. (Which is true for the military aid). Still, it doesn’t matter that they were getting aid from day one, economic or military. That is no excuse for espionage. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/49 "2004-08-28T11:03:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > (I’ve been hopping around to news blogs and rumor mills like a flea on a hot griddle…somewhere I saw the word “uranium” but kept following links and couldn’t back, or the site had changed since and no longer said “uranium”…just one of those internet chimera…I hope…) I don’t have a cite because it was something I saw on MSNBC… MSNBC’s “counterterrorism expert” (the quotes aren’t sarcastic, that’s what they billed him as) Larry Johnson was interviewed on the Keith Olbermanjahhn show **Countdown** , and Johnson indicated that the spy might have been responsible for the forged documents that led Joe Wilson to be sent to Niger. I’m sure more will come out, yay or nay, in the next few days. Everyone’s been talking about the president’s “16 words” which led Wilson to write his “What I Didn’t Find in Africa” essay, which led to someone in the White House outing Wilson’s CIA operative wife out of spite. Very few have talked about where those forged documents came from in the first place. This may be it. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/50 "2004-08-28T12:56:45Z")
> [@nonpolar](#): > > You right ,after tens of years siphoning billions of dollars from US tax payers… To be fair, a large amount of Israel’s aid takes the form of loan guarantees, which aren’t actually cash. As I understand it, it’s like being a cosigner for Israel. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > I don’t have cites, but I believe that Israel’s military and economy are, to one degree or another, dependant on our largess. > > Thus, to decrease aid would decrease the vibrancy of their military and/or economy. Sometimes in the course of human events, humans adapt to events. Israel’s not a helpless pup stranded on a distant shore. Even if their economy’s dependent on US aid, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have an economy that’d be dependent on something else. If their economy’s dependent upon our aid, that’s all the more reason to find a way to get them off of our payroll. Teach a man to fish and all that. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > However, I still think it’s naive to assume that our allies don’t and won’t spy on us and that damaging strategic alliances over something that is part and parcel of modern statecraft is unnecessary. Something you may not have picked up from the posts here because it’s only been implied rather than explicitly stated- **no one’s surprised. No one assumes that our allies don’t and won’t spy on us. No one here at all**. Lets move on from this point that you have made, iterated and reiterated, mmmkay? Because just as I pointed out before, and **as we all know** , even as it’s naive to assume that our allies don’t and won’t spy on us, **it’s just as naive to think that we have no reason to be concerned or no reason to react to such shit.** > [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m sorry, but that just made me laugh. Thank you. To be fair, you actually did respond to an argument that no one had made. It’s very naive to think that iwthholding aid is the same as ending diplomatic relations. aid does not equal relations. I’ts quite possible to maintain diplomatic relations w/o giving foreign aid. Just look at Israel’s relationship with the US. Israle has diplomatic relation, yet the give us no foreign aid packages. You might as well admit that you used a straw man when you decried ending diplomatic relations w/ Israel, 'cause if you don’t, you’ll do a better job of making yourself look silly than any Pit thread could do. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > …in this case, you are suggesting a radical departure of five decades of diplomatic posture and a radical restructuring of our relationship with Israel. Hogwash and horsefeathers. Sec State James Baker cut off Israel’s loan guarantees within my lifetime. And that was just to get Israel to come to the negotiating table w/ Arafat. **No one called for a radical restructuring of our relationship with Israel.** The dialogue would prgoress more smoothly if you were to address the arguments made rather than those you invent yourself. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > So I retract my earlier statement as factually incorrect. Good on you. It is a sign of a character more mature than my own. kudos. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > But maybe we’re in Israel’s pocket and we just do whatever they say, no-questions-asked. Was there a fire sale on straw there @ Howthe? I think that concerns are more precisely expressed thusly: [**Do Israel’s Interests Have Undue Influence on US Foreign Policy? (esp re NeoCons)**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=233149) Undue influence is a sufficient cause for concern (by definition) yet it something different from “we just do whatever they say, no-questions-asked”. > [@Jeff Lodoen](#): > > Think we have spies in Israel? > I’d be surprised if we didn’t. I’d call it incompetent. ME too. We should be prepared to pay to play the spy game just like everyone else. quote=Equipoise]Everyone’s been talking about the president’s “16 words” which led Wilson to write his “What I Didn’t Find in Africa” essay, which led to someone in the White House outing Wilson’s CIA operative wife out of spite. Very few have talked about where those forged documents came from in the first place. This may be it. [/quote] I remember these sorts of reports coming out a while back. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/51 "2004-08-28T13:32:22Z")
There are different gradients of spies. If the new mole turns out to be a mid-level Pollard type that would be bad enough, but if it turns out that this person was near the top of the food chain in handling intelligence delivered to the President I think we’re stepping into very dangerous territory. There has been a continuous undercurrent of suspicion in the intelligence community that Bush’s hawkish “Vulcans” (Pearl-Wolfowitz-Luti etc. and their acolytes) promoted and supported rationales for attacking Iraq as part of a larger strategic plan guided primarly about concerns for Israel’s security, and that questionable intelligence was manipulated, created or promoted to effect this end. Whether this is true or not, if it turns out that the mole is near the top of the intelligence handling pyramid which spoon feeds the President, it’s going to look as if Israel manipulated or bluffed us into attacking Iraq. If that’s the case (and it many not be) Israel will be seen as partly responsible for almost 1,000 dead American soliders, and hundreds of billions in dollars down the rathole, and a host of associated unpleasantness. If this mole is high up and has influence on intelligence interpretation, I don’t think the normal diplomatic tap dances are going to work this time. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/52 "2004-08-28T13:41:24Z")
John Trigilio any one? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/53 "2004-08-28T13:46:21Z")
> [@astro](#): > > … if it turns out that this person was near the top of the food chain in handling intelligence delivered to the President I think we’re stepping into very dangerous territory. The allegations are that the fellow passed along info that allowed Israel an insight into what were supposed to be secret internal discussions on what our policies should be. No one’s saying that the fella himself was capable of influencing policy. the Pentagon has come out and specifically denied that the guy was in a position to influence policy himself. He just passed along inside info that could’ve gioven Israel the ability to influence our internal policy negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/54 "2004-08-28T13:47:50Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I’ll bet this story came about as an unintended consequence of the Chalabi investigation: Who could ever have imagined **two** spys, working for _different countries_, lurking at the heart of our military policy apparatus? Don’t manipulation at the same time by an Iranian operative and an Israeli one cancel each other out? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/55 "2004-08-28T13:58:33Z")
It appears that the suspect in this case is **Harold Rhode** : > [@](#): > > The Pentagon analyst who officials said was under suspicion was one of two department officials who traveled to Paris for secret meetings with Iranian dissidents, including Manucher Ghorbanifar [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/28/politics/28spy.html?pagewanted=2&hp) > [@](#): > > Three days of meetings took place in Rome, involving Harold Rhode, Larry Franklin, Ghorbanifar, and two still-unidentified officials of the Iranian regime. [Larouchepub](http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3122chalabi_ghorbanifar.html) (and others) So what has Rhode been up to since joining Feith’s staff? > [@](#): > > "According to insiders, Rhode worked with Feith to purge career Defense officials who weren’t sufficiently enthusiastic about the muscular anti-Iraq crusade that Paul D. Wolfowitz and Feith wanted. Rhode appeared to be ‘pulling people out of nooks and crannies of the Defense Intelligence Agency and other places to replace us with,’ says a former analyst. ‘They wanted nothing to do with the professional staff. And they wanted us the fuck out of there.’ [disinfopedia](http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Harold_Rhode) > [@](#): > > The Pentagon Office of Special Plans sends two Defense officials, Harold Rhode and Larry Franklin, to Paris where they secretly meet with Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian arms trader who had been a central figure in the Iran-Contra affair. Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute is said to have arranged the meeting, which is not authorized by the White House. > … > \*\*It appears that the purpose of the meeting is to undermine a pending deal that the White House is negotiating with the Iranian government. Iran is considering turning over five al-Qaeda operatives \*\*in exchange for Washington dropping its support for Mujahadeen Khalq, an Iraq-based rebel Iranian group listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department. [cooperative research](http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=harold+rhode&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on) And, of course, the Rhodes connection to Chalabi: > [@](#): > > the FBI is investigating a Pentagon official and a former Pentagon official for having passed classified info to Chalabi. Though not named, the two officials in the UPI story are, according to my sources, Harold Rhode, an official in the Pentagon’s Office of Net Assessment, and Michael Rubin, now at the American Enterprise Institute. Reports UPI: > > Officials of the Coalition Provisional Authority are suspected of having leaked sensitive CIA and Pentagon intercepts to the U.S.-funded Iraqi National Congress, which passed them on to the government of Iran, according to federal law enforcement officials and serving and former U.S. intelligence officials. > > These sources also acknowledged that the Bush administration has been the victim of an enormous Iran-perpetrated intelligence fraud that worked to provoke a U.S. military invasion of Iraq in order to defeat Iran’s bitter, long-time enemy, a campaign of deception which one U.S. source called “positively a most brilliant and extraordinarily successful operation.” [TomPaine](http://www.tompaine.com/articles/pentagon_spies.php) It’s a good thing that Rhodes was kept at (as the pentagon spokesman says) [“the desk officer level”](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040828/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/pentagon_spy_probe) , and “was not in a position to have significant influence over U.S. policy.” Otherwise he could have gotten up to some _real_ mischief. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/56 "2004-08-28T14:11:01Z")
**Squink** , your mysterious and wonderful intersection. [**Exclusive: DIA targets DOD unit**](http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040729-081130-3601r.htm) _August 02, 2004 UPI_ The Defense Intelligence Agency is accelerating its investigation of a two-man Pentagon intelligence team – the Counter-Terrorism Evaluation Group – which was tasked to establish links between then Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida mastermind Osama bin Laden, according to current and former senior Pentagon officials. The investigation is trying to determine if the two-man unit leaked sensitive CIA and Pentagon intercepts to the U.S.-funded Iraqi National Congress, which passed them on to the government of Iran, Pentagon and U.S. intelligence officials said. Another prominent official of the NESA office was Harold Rhode who often dealt directly with Iraqi exile and former Pentagon favorite Ahmed Chalabi. U.S. intelligence officials have alleged Chalabi passed “extremely critical U.S. intelligence” to the government of Iran. **Squink** , your mysterious and wonderful intersection. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/57 "2004-08-28T14:28:52Z")
Not only do we get Abrams, Perle et al, but look who else **[Pentagon hard-liners may be undercutting diplomacy with Iran](http://www.stg.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/nation/6486250.htm)** _Fri, Aug. 08, 2003 BY KNUT ROYCE AND TIMOTHY M. PHELPS_ …Manucher Ghorbanifar, the Iranian middleman in U.S. arms-for-hostage shipments to Iran in the mid-1980s. Rhode is a protege of Michael Ledeen…[Ledeen] introduced [Manucher] Ghorbanifar to Oliver North. …Ledeen who reopened the Ghorbanifar channel with Feith’s staff. Ledeen once described [Ghorbanifar] as “one of the most honest, educated, honorable men I have ever known.” [CIA says Ghorbanifar] … “should be regarded as an intelligence fabricator and nuisance.” senior administration official said he was puzzled by the resurfacing of Ghorbanifar after all these years. “It would be amazing if anybody in government hadn’t learned the lessons of last time around,” he said. “These guys [including Ledeen] should have learned it, 'cause they lived it.” Those who something something history something something something. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/58 "2004-08-28T14:28:52Z")
Harold Rhode seems to be a very good suspect. The guy was a nutter about Saddam even in circles full of nutters about Saddam. Signed a Project for the New American Century letter to Clinton on 26 Jan '98 calling for war. Seems to have been knee-deep in the OSP. Speaks English, Hebrew, Arabic, Farsi, and Turkish. refuses to speak to the press. Very anti-Arab. Prefers vodka martinis shaken, not stirred. Well, we will see. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/59 "2004-08-28T14:32:53Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > This is par for the course. Team Bush selected someone who had been caught passing classified national security information to agents of a foreign country (Israel coincidentally enough) to be one of his foreign policy advisors - to help him “find Kosovo on a map”- one of the Vulcans. > This same fellow recently tried to broker a bid for a private company using his contacts and influence in the Pentagon. It would’ve been illegal had he only showed to two or three more days of work on the Defense Policy Advisory Board. Even more interesting is that the contract he was trying to broker was **opposed by the FBI and the Pentagon** because **the company that he was working for was** owned by a man who runs companies that are **known fronts for the Chinese military and intelligence services**. What happened over this? He was asked to step down from his position as chairman of the President’s Defense Policy Advisory Board, becoming just another lowly member of the President’s Defense Policy Advisory Board. He has since been forced to resign as the result of further conflict of interest scandals. > He runs an investment firm that specializes in security related businesses. He is reported to do business with international arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi. > > This is the sort of fellow that GWB _chose_ to help him devise America’s foreign policy. > Character counts, so what kind of shit do you expect to happen? > > Anyway, **SteveG1** these things are all matter of very, very public record and the Bush Team took to him anyway, so I don’t think that background checks would make much of a difference. This same fellow raised funds for the international terrorist group that Hussein actually did provide substantial support for. He did this in January of this year. I’m heartily amused that despite posting this rant in several threads no one has ever asked me for a citation or even a name. Too mant fnords in my posts I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/60 "2004-08-28T14:34:10Z")
I haven’t seen Rhode tied to the DIA yet. That’s why I was leaning toward John Trigilio [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885.md?page=4)