# Another Israeli mole uncovered - Why does Israel feel it can spy on us with impunity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885 "2004-08-28T01:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/61 "2004-08-28T14:59:33Z")
The Washington Post this morning says insiders finger [Larry Franklin](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40004-2004Aug27?language=printer), the _other_ guy at the Paris meeting. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/62 "2004-08-28T15:03:16Z")
"Israeli officials insisted Israel had not spied on the United States since being caught red-handed two decades ago in an espionage scandal involving U.S. Navy analyst Jonathan Pollard, arrested in 1985 outside the Israeli embassy. “We deny carrying out any intelligence activity. It is a strange story,” said a senior Israeli government official, who declined to be identified. **"Israel, for many years, has not carried out intelligence activity in the United States."** Yuval Steinitz, chairman of the Israeli parliament’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said Israel made a “firm decision” 20 years ago, after Pollard’s arrest, not to spy on Washington again." [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6094139](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6094139) After you get up off the floor, remember to reattach your ass. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/63 "2004-08-28T15:16:22Z")
interesting if true “At the root of the Valerie Plame affair is the role of her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, in refuting the baseless claim that Iraq had sought to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. This story was buttresses by documents which turned out to be forged. **A prime suspect in this regard is Ledeen** , and the accusation is made more plausible because the faked documents first surfaced in Rome, where Ledeen possesses extensive contacts. A federal grand jury is probing this matter. Ledeen, **like so many Bush officials, is an alumnus of the 1980s George H. W. Bush-Poindexter-Abrams-Oliver North Iran-contra gun-running and drug-running scandal** , and appears to have mobilized these networks as part of the post 9-11 assault on Iraq. In December 2001, Ledeen moved to revive the Iran connection, setting up a meeting between two Pentagon civilian neo-cons and Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian arms dealer whom the CIA called a criminal and liar. Three days of meetings in Rome involved Harold Rhode, Larry Franklin, Ghorbanifar, and two unnamed officials of the Iranian regime.” [http://www.gaiaguys.net/Likudniks6.04.htm](http://www.gaiaguys.net/Likudniks6.04.htm) More from the What’d-you-expect?-I’m-a-snake file. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/64 "2004-08-28T15:35:57Z")
[**Exclusive: Regime Change in Iran? One Man’s Secret Plan**](http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3706341&p1=0) MSNBC **Iran’s Chalabi**? Manucher Ghorbanifar says he talked secretly with Pentagon officials about plans for regime change in Iran Dec. 22 issue - What was international man of mystery Manucher Ghorbanifar up to when he met with top Pentagon experts on Iran? In a NEWSWEEK interview in Paris last month, Ghorbanifar, a former Iranian spy who helped launch the Iran-contra affair, says one of the things he discussed with Defense officials Harold Rhode and **Larry Franklin** at meetings in Rome in December 2001 (and in Paris last June with only Rhode) was **regime change in Iran**. Ghorbanifar says there are Iranians capable of organizing a peaceful revolution against the ruling theocracy. He says his contacts know where Saddam Hussein hid $340 million in cash. With American help, he says, this money could be retrieved and half used to overthrow the ayatollahs. (The other half would be turned over to the United States.) Ghorbanifar says he told his U.S. interlocutors that ousting the mullahs would be a breakthrough in the war on terror because top Qaeda leaders, including Osama bin Laden, are in Iran. (“You won’t be surprised if you find that Saddam Hussein is on one of the Iranian islands.”) Among other intel Ghorbanifar says he and associates gave the Pentagon: a warning that terrorists in Iraq would attack hotels. He also says he had advance info about Iranian nukes and a terrorist plot in Canada. Financial gain was never his objective, he says: “We wanted to give them the money, not to take the money.” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/65 "2004-08-28T16:00:50Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > . No one assumes that our allies don’t and won’t spy on us. No one here at all\*\*. > [@brutus](#): > > No, everybody doesn’t spy on everybody else.\ > Kick me out a cite about French and British and Italian spies that we caught over here. Or are they so clever that we just havn’t caught them yet? I’ll touch on the rest of the points later, it’s breakfast time. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/66 "2004-08-28T16:12:07Z")
**[Still Dreaming of Tehran](http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040412&s=dreyfuss)** _by ROBERT DREYFUSS & LAURA ROZEN [from the April 12, 2004 issue]_ Speaking to retired US intelligence officers in McLean, Virginia, in January, Ledeen called Iran the “throbbing heart of terrorism” and urged the Bush Administration to support revolutionary change. “ **Tehran** ,” he said, “ **is a city just waiting for us**.” Rhode and another Pentagon official, Larry Franklin, have been talking to Ghorbanifar about options for regime change in Tehran. “They were looking at getting introduced to alleged sources inside Iran, who could give them some inside information on the struggles in Iran,” said Vince Cannistraro, a former CIA counterterrorism chief. Ghorbanifar, he said, was spinning tall tales about alleged (but unsubstantiated) **transfers of Iraqi uranium to Iran’s nuclear weapons program**. \*\*Rhode and Franklin \*\*were critical players in the campaign for war against Iraq. In 2002 they helped organize the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans, the Iraq war-planning unit whose intelligence staffers are now under investigation by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for allegedly manipulating evidence about Iraq’s nonexistent weapons of mass destruction and ties to terrorism. Both the OSP and the Rhode-Franklin effort on Iran were run out of the office of Douglas Feith, the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy and a key neocon ally. Their initiative on Iran reportedly drew a sharp protest from the State Department. Newsday quoted a US official who said that the entire effort was designed to “ **antagonize Iran so that they get frustrated and then by their reactions harden US policy against them**.” …last September Khomeini’s grandson–dressed in rough-hewn black and brown robes and crowned by a turban, with dark brooding eyes like his grandfather’s–took the podium at AEI, introduced by Michael Ledeen, to call for US assistance to overthrow the Iranian government. He even welcomed an alliance with the Pahlavi monarchists. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’ll touch on the rest of the points later, it’s breakfast time. Okay, okay. My hyperbole got the best of me. I should’ve stuck some qualifiers in there. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/67 "2004-08-28T16:51:42Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > No, everybody doesn’t spy on everybody else. Especially not ‘spying’ with the intent of influencing the internal political process of another nation. Especially not when that nation is probably your ‘best friend’ (as far as nations go) in the world. > > Kick me out a cite about French and British and Italian spies that we caught over here. Or are they so clever that we just havn’t caught them yet? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > If you are asking for a cite as to what countries have been caught spying on us, I do not have one. > Nor do I have a cite for my contention that any government that wants to be informed has to spy on other countries. > Nor do I feel like arguing that point as it seems intuitive to me. > If necessary I will concede the point to you, as I am uninterested in debating it. So… ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/68 "2004-08-28T17:03:42Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > … Okay, okay. My hyperbole got the best of me. I should’ve stuck some qualifiers in there. No, I should have. I meant ‘commit espionage’ when I said ‘spy’. I seriously doubt that France or Britain have agents over here trying to influence the decision making process at the highest levels of our gov’t; I don’t doubt that Britain or France have people over here gathering up the sensitive economic data or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/69 "2004-08-28T17:05:18Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Sometimes in the course of human events, humans adapt to events. > Israel’s not a helpless pup stranded on a distant shore. Even if their economy’s dependent on US aid, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have an economy that’d be dependent on something else. > If their economy’s dependent upon our aid, that’s all the more reason to find a way to get them off of our payroll. Teach a man to fish and all that. I agree that financial independance would be a very good thing for Israel. But I also think that if we were to pull the plug on aid tomorrow, it’d be very difficult for Israel to find an effective method of survival… But again, I’m not an economist, and I don’t know for certain. > [@SimonX](#): > > Lets move on from this point that you have made, iterated and reiterated, mmmkay? Now that I’ve finished dealing with **Brutus** it is indeed mmmmkay. > [@SimonX](#): > > Because just as I pointed out before, and **as we all know** , even as it’s naive to assume that our allies don’t and won’t spy on us, **it’s just as naive to think that we have no reason to be concerned or no reason to react to such shit.** I don’t think we shouldn’t be concerned, in fact, I’ve said as much in this thread. I just think that there are more apropriate methods of showing our concern. > [@SimonX](#): > > To be fair, you actually did respond to an argument that no one had made. It’s very naive to think that iwthholding aid is the same as ending diplomatic relations. aid does not equal relations. > You might as well admit that you used a straw man when you decried ending diplomatic relations w/ Israel, 'cause if you don’t, you’ll do a better job of making yourself look silly than any Pit thread could do. **SimonX** I’ve already retracted that statement as factually incorrect, I don’t know what else you want me to do. > [@SimonX](#): > > Hogwash and horsefeathers. Sec State James Baker cut off Israel’s loan guarantees within my lifetime. And that was just to get Israel to come to the negotiating table w/ Arafat. > **No one called for a radical restructuring of our relationship with Israel.** The dialogue would prgoress more smoothly if you were to address the arguments made rather than those you invent yourself. People have called for all aid to be stopped, unless I’ve read their posts wrong. > [@SimonX](#): > > Good on you. It is a sign of a character more mature than my own. kudos. Thanks much, but then please don’t ask me to retract the position I’ve already retracted. I understand I screwed up, that’s why I posted that. [quote=Brutus] Sure thing, and a history of spying on us should have us radically rethink that policy of no-questions-asked military aid.] > [@FinnAgain](#): > > But maybe we’re in Israel’s pocket and we just do whatever they say, no-questions-asked. > [@SimonX](#): > > Was there a fire sale on straw there @ Howthe? I’m sorry, I thought it was fairly obvious that when someone says we give them military aid no-questions-asked that ammounts to doing what they want, no-questions-asked. > [@SimonX](#): > > I think that concerns are more precisely expressed thusly: [**Do Israel’s Interests Have Undue Influence on US Foreign Policy? (esp re NeoCons)**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=233149) > Undue influence is a sufficient cause for concern (by definition) yet it something different from “we just do whatever they say, no-questions-asked”. Undue influence seems to be subjective to me… If our policy makers decide that Israel’s status is our concern, they may be right or wrong, but it seems to be the same as deciding that any other country on this planet should be at the center of our foreign policy. However, I’ve not had time to read all of the thread you mentioned, so I don’t feel qualified to offer any deeper reaction than that, at least not at present. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/70 "2004-08-28T17:48:44Z")
Here’s a very interesting piece about **[Manucher Ghorbanifar](http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=159&aid=417&pg=1)** _by: Jane Hunter October - November 1987 The Link - Volume 20, Issue 4 Page 1_ When asked by the Congressional Iran-contra panel counsel whether Ghorbanifar “was a **Savak agent who had worked for the Israelis** ,” [[Albert] Hakim](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908261.html) said that was so. He also acknowledged seeing information connecting Ghorbanifar to the “ **intelligence services of Israel**.”[sup] **2** [/sup] Some CIA officials as well suspected Ghorbanifar had ties to Israeli intelligence,[sup] **3** [/sup] a point testified to several times by Oliver North before the Iran-contra committees: “[Ghorbanifar] was widely suspected to be, within the people I dealt with at the Central Intelligence Agency, an agent of the Israeli government or at least one of, if not more, of their security services.”[sup] **4** [/sup] **Michael Ledeen** recently denied claims that Ghorbanifar was an Israeli agent. Had they been true, said Ledeen, he would have been further encouraged as to the go-between’s reliability.[sup] **7** [/sup] 1. Iran-contra hearings, June 4 and June 5, 1987; Ronald Koven, “Allegiances of Iranian arms deal intermediary unclear,” Boston Sunday Globe, December 14, 1986 contains details of Star Shipping. 2. Alison Mitchell, “CIA Warned Against Dealing With Ghorbanifar,” Newsday, February 4, 1987. 3. Taking the Stand, testimony of Oliver North before the Iran-contra committees, Pocket books, New York, 1987, p. 307 and passim. 4. Larry Cohler: “Michael Ledeen’s Story,” Washington Jewish Week, June 18, 1987. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/71 "2004-08-28T18:38:22Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I agree that financial independance would be a very good thing for Israel. > But I also think that if we were to pull the plug on aid tomorrow, it’d be very difficult for Israel to find an effective method of survival… > But again, I’m not an economist, and I don’t know for certain. I have doubts that Israel is the fragile little flower you seem to think it is. They survived alright when Baker did it. I mean Israel does still exist. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > **SimonX** I’ve already retracted that statement as factually incorrect, I don’t know what else you want me to do. Just writing as I read it. My later posts supecedes the earlier one. Sorry for the confusion. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > People have called for all aid to be stopped, unless I’ve read their posts wrong. quoth **Brutus** , “What should happen is that all defense aid should be _**[suspsended](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=suspend&x=0&y=0)**_…” **SimonX** said, “…use it as leverage _ **when** _ it suits our interests?” and as an example added, “James Baker did it _ **once** _ and got quick compliance.” **ralph124c** said, “…a good start would be the immediate _**[suspension](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=suspend&x=0&y=0)**_ of all loans, grants and outright gifts to that country.” **Butus** then protested, “I said that we should _**[suspend](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=suspend&x=0&y=0)**_ defense aid.” Even **FinnAgain** seemed to notice and said, "You suggested we _**[suspend](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=suspend&x=0&y=0)**_ defense aid as a result of this. " I’d say that these folks (except you of course) just assumed that the perogative to [suspend](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=suspend&x=0&y=0) aid was **already a part of our current relationship with Israel**. It would be a very odd relationship that lacked this perogative on our part. A relationship that required a radical restructuring to add this perogative would be more akin to paying tribute than giving foreign aid. There’re both denotational and connotational differences between the words ‘[stop](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=stop&x=17&y=13)’ and ‘[suspend](http://bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=suspend&x=0&y=0)’. Now’d be a good time to take note these differences. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m sorry, I thought it was fairly obvious that when someone says we give them military aid no-questions-asked that ammounts to doing what they want, no-questions-asked. Well, you’re wrong. The differences though somehow subtle are mighty large. Giving aid is a specific subset of possible actions. “Whatever they say” is a subset of possible actions as well, but it is much broader in its potential scope. In the former instance (“we give them military aid no-questions-asked”) implies that there’s not a discussion amongst the electorate and politicians of whether or not we should be giving military aid. In the latter instance (“whatever they say, no-questions-asked”) implies a subservience of the US to Israel. Since the two sets of actions described are different, and the implied targets of the unasked questions are different, the only significant similarity is the noted lack of questions being asked. This similarity is not enough though. Not enough to consider the two assertions (“we give them military aid no-questions-asked” and “whatever they say, no-questions-asked”) to be the same argument. As you were both the one who devised the latter assertion and the one who argued against it, I was struck by the situation’s similarities to the use of a straw man. But, YMMV > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Undue influence seems to be subjective to me… I think that it is too. Something else that is also subjective is the appropriate amount of aid alotted to foreign countries. So what of it? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > If our policy makers decide that Israel’s status is our concern, they may be right or wrong, but it seems to be the same as deciding that any other country on this planet should be at the center of our foreign policy. Who said it was any different? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/72 "2004-08-28T18:47:28Z")
[HIJACK] Is it not part of the Neocon ethos to eventually wean Israel off of the American teat, so to speak? [/HIJACK] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/73 "2004-08-28T18:49:50Z")
I think I should very much prefer that only _one_ country be at the center of our Foreign Policy. I’m pretty sure that only one country is at the center of Israel’s foreign policy. And I’ve got no real problem with Israel going to some lengths to stay informed about US policy, I can understand that, Israel is a state wherein paranoia is a survival skill. Be a bit uncomfortable about it, maybe, but not really alarmed. And if it turns out that that’s all this is about, I’ll shrug it off, have a nice cup chamomile tea, chill. But if they were pulling strings on _our_ end, trying to _affect_ the outcome rather than merely _anticipate_ the outcome, then I’m jumping up and down mad, rock-chunking, run around screaming with my hair on fire mad! I mean like _reaaaallllly_ pissed! ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/74 "2004-08-28T18:56:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But if they were pulling strings on _our_ end, trying to _affect_ the outcome rather than merely _anticipate_ the outcome, then I’m jumping up and down mad, rock-chunking, run around screaming with my hair on fire mad! > > I mean like _reaaaallllly_ pissed! Why? This is how nations behave. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/75 "2004-08-28T18:57:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I think I should very much prefer that only _one_ country be at the center of our Foreign Policy. You’re talking about the Soviet Union, right? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/76 "2004-08-28T18:59:26Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Don’t manipulation at the same time by an Iranian operative and an Israeli one cancel each other out? 😉 You jest, but in the case of Iraq, both countries had a reason to get rid of Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/77 "2004-08-28T19:15:45Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > You’re talking about the Soviet Union, right? TO: Commissar, SDMB Subversion Committee Lubyanka, Kremlin Moscow FROM: Agent X-23, codename “clarifier” Dangerously close to being exposed by poster **Squink**. Request immediate action. Information about radio frequency of dental fillings unavailable, may use aluminum hat technology to thwart telepathic rays. Recommend black helicopter… Yours in Revolution, **"clarifier"** CC: Comrades **Stoid, Reeder, Hentor and Sam** (Hey, wait a second…!) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/78 "2004-08-28T19:34:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > TO: Commissar, SDMB Subversion Committee > Lubyanka, Kremlin Moscow > > FROM: Agent X-23, codename “clarifier” > > Dangerously close to being exposed by poster **Squink**. Request immediate action. Information about radio frequency of dental fillings unavailable, may use aluminum hat technology to thwart telepathic rays. Recommend black helicopter… > > Yours in Revolution, > > **"clarifier"** > > CC: Comrades **Stoid, Reeder, Hentor and Sam** > > (Hey, wait a second…!) Too late pinko! Moose and squirrel are onto you! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/79 "2004-08-28T19:36:38Z")
Curses! Tin foiled again! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885/80 "2004-08-28T19:50:20Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Our diplomatic relationship with Israel includes and entails us giving them aid. > Our diplomatic posture with Israel is one of alliance and aid. We do give them aid and an ally, but I’m tempted to ask what we get for it. The ‘democratic ally in the Middle East’ thing has worn thin in my opinion, since I don’t know what that alliance profits America. I’m all in favor of generosity in foreign aid, but if this is a strategic alliance I think we should benefit strategically somehow. I think it’s the opposite: the very close alliance with Israel makes us even more of a target. If this is an alliance, the tail is wagging the dog. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-israeli-mole-uncovered-why-does-israel-feel-it-can-spy-on-us-with-impunity/261885.md?page=5)