# Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727 "2010-05-25T18:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/181 "2010-05-31T16:21:14Z")
And just why would you think gun owners today are any different than 40 years ago? Have you been reading the comments on this thread? No one has said ‘this is how it was when I was growing up, but now I think different’. No, instead we have “I was shootin’ guns and had my own gun collection at 8yrs old and now that I’m a parent I don’t see anything wrong with 8yr olds having guns”. Or 'Guns are toys", or “Guns are fun”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/182 "2010-05-31T16:45:02Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Youd lose that wager. Would I? 10 seconds on Google had this link: [Firearms injury: leading cause of injury death in Alaska](http://www.epi.alaska.gov/bulletins/docs/b1996_20.htm). > [@Todderbob](#): > > Do you deny that objects which can be used as weapons are often used as sports implements? Stupid example. Lots of stuff can be used as a weapon. Hammers, bats, etc. The items you mentioned are used for organized athletics, so they actually have other uses than blowing up soda bottles. 50% of homes don’t have javelin equipment. Dozens of kids aren’t having their faces blown off each year by arrows. Fencing equipment owners don’t pretend they use their épée as protection. You don’t like the words ‘toy’ or ‘play’. But if you’re not using guns for hunting or “protection” - and the comments on this thread have been ‘I view shootin’ guns as a past time, as recreation, protection is secondary’, then you are indeed playing with a toy. Hey, I get it. You like shootin’ guns. It makes you feel all manly and macho. More power to you. Personally, I don’t feel the need for a penis extension. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/183 "2010-05-31T16:49:38Z")
Wow Dragon, it’s really hard to keep up with you. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Spent most of my first 8-9 years near Fairbanks, Alaska. This was back in the 60s Years in Alaska? From your posts, I gather that you lived there until you where about 9 years old. That’s cool. Quite a wild place to be sure. Can you speak about the accidents or deaths that happened with firearms. Can you speak about the people that used them for hunting, target shooting, or defense from bears? I can and have. [quote=DragonAsh}Spent many years after that living near a rock quarry in the mountains midway between Ft Collins and Denver[/quote] There are no mountains between Ft Collins and Denver. Not one. There isn’t even a hill. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > And just why would you think gun owners today are any different than 40 years ago? Have you been reading the comments on this thread? No one has said ‘this is how it was when I was growing up, but now I think different’. > > No, instead we have “I was shootin’ guns and had my own gun collection at 8yrs old and now that I’m a parent I don’t see anything wrong with 8yr olds having guns”. Or 'Guns are toys", or “Guns are fun”. > And just why would you think gun owners today are any different than 40 years ago? Have you been reading the comments on this thread? No one has said ‘this is how it was when I was growing up, but now I think different’. > > No, instead we have “I was shootin’ guns and had my own gun collection at 8yrs old and now that I’m a parent I don’t see anything wrong with 8yr olds having guns”. Or 'Guns are toys", or “Guns are fun”. You should really try to read and parse your response before posting. And perhaps read what other folks are saying. You are really coming of as a shrill ‘all guns are evil’ person. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/184 "2010-05-31T16:51:04Z")
I can has phallus? It’s OK, Ash, you’ve got penis envy. We don’t understand you, but we sympathize. Maybe in your next life, huh? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/185 "2010-05-31T19:06:11Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Hey, I get it. You like shootin’ guns. It makes you feel all manly and macho. More power to you. Personally, I don’t feel the need for a penis extension. Bill Maher, White Courtesy Phone… Bill Maher, White Courtesy Phone… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/186 "2010-05-31T19:09:41Z")
The small-penis denigration thing is the new Godwin. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/187 "2010-05-31T19:21:03Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Would I? 10 seconds on Google had this link: > > [Firearms injury: leading cause of injury death in Alaska](http://www.epi.alaska.gov/bulletins/docs/b1996_20.htm). Firerarms overtook cars, for the first time in the 90s. That’s not exactly evidence _for_ firearms being more numerous in deaths 40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/188 "2010-05-31T19:39:47Z")
So, once again it comes down to this – > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Hey, I get it. You like shootin’ guns. It makes you feel all manly and macho. More power to you. Personally, I don’t feel the need for a penis extension. You have no argument, so instead you fling childish insults. DragonAsh, your statements only show how completely clueless you are about people that own guns. You continue to refuse the idea that they have any utility, or can be used for recreation. You have not considered anything that has been said here. You have a preconceived notion about gun owners that they are all bad. We are not. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/189 "2010-05-31T22:14:06Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Would I? 10 seconds on Google had this link: > > [Firearms injury: leading cause of injury death in Alaska](http://www.epi.alaska.gov/bulletins/docs/b1996_20.htm). I’m very surprised, honestly. I would have bet motor vehicle accidents would have very much outweighed firearms accidents. Ignorance fought by you…good. > [@](#): > > It makes you feel all manly and macho. More power to you. Personally, I don’t feel the need for a penis extension. …and now Ignorance increased by you. How very unfortunate that you had to resort to a sexual slur to tell us all how you don’t like guns. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/190 "2010-05-31T22:18:17Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Fencing equipment owners don’t pretend they use their épée as protection. …and, speaking as an actual fencer, what a silly analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/191 "2010-05-31T23:26:33Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Hey, I get it. You like shootin’ guns. It makes you feel all manly and macho. More power to you. Personally, I don’t feel the need for a penis extension. I’ll tell you what, chuckles. If pretending every gun owner either hates owning a gun or is a small-dicked wonder gets you to sleep at night, you go ahead and you just enjoy the hell out of that. Now go away, kid. Adults are talking. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/192 "2010-06-01T00:48:19Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Firerarms overtook cars, for the first time in the 90s. > > That’s not exactly evidence _for_ firearms being more numerous in deaths 40 years ago. From the link: > [@](#): > > During 1993-1994 firearm injury deaths overtook motor vehicle injury deaths as the leading cause of injury mortality among Alaska residents. In fact, firearm injuries were the leading cause of injury deaths from 1980 to 1994 (Figure 1). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/193 "2010-06-01T00:55:20Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’m very surprised, honestly. I would have bet motor vehicle accidents would have very much outweighed firearms accidents. Ignorance fought by you…good. Except: > [@](#): > > Suicide accounted for the majority (74%) of firearm injury deaths in Alaska during 1994. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/194 "2010-06-01T01:51:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except: OK, I mis-spoke in my reply, but the misogynistic phallocentrically-obsessed one originally said: > [@](#): > > Back in Alaska, we saw more needless injuries and death from guns to last us a lifetime. At least back in the day, I’d wager guns were killing more people than cars. And I reckon suicides fall under the broad oink of “injuries and death.” And guns “kill” people to about the same extent that autos “kill”, in that a death occurred and item X was involved in some manner. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/195 "2010-06-01T06:55:41Z")
I had to call my relatives back in the States to confirm where we lived in Colorado. We originally moved from Alaska to Berthoud, but - and I had forgotten this - moved after about a couple of months to north-west of Boulder; apparently the closest small town was Longmont. It was in the mountains. Anyway - where were we? Ah, yes: > [@](#): > > And I reckon suicides fall under the broad oink of “injuries and death.” And guns “kill” people to about the same extent that autos “kill”, in that a death occurred and item X was involved in some manner. Right - ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’. :rolleyes: Look, I think we both agree soldiers and LEO probably should have guns. How about joe-blow public? Why don’t you all try to tell me _why_ you like guns? So far, the only reasons I’ve seen so far have been ‘I like shootin’ guns, they’re recreational toys’. In other words, it’s cool and manly and macho. Guns have no other reason for existence other than to shoot other living things. You see the death and destruction your gun love causes. You see the effect it has on our society. Weigh that against you wanting to use guns as recreational toys, and you’re going to tell me _I’m_ the crazy one? How about being honest about what it is you like about guns? How about being honest about the impact you think gun love has on the US as a society? I’m not trying to take your guns away. Like smoking, drinking, gambling, or any other potential vice, that’s up to personal choice. But I find it very very telling that I grew up with and around guns, among people that actually -had- to use guns as a hunting tool - and none of them then or now have any fondness for guns. You guys love guns because you get to play with them. They’re toys. Given the limited utility guns have outside of killing other living things, guns should be regulated and legislated to the hilt. Guns should be really expensive, really really hard to get, and monitored/tracked like license plates for cars, and gun infractions should be punished at least as severely as drunk driving. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/196 "2010-06-01T07:27:27Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Guns have no other reason for existence other than to shoot other living things. You see the death and destruction your gun love causes. You see the effect it has on our society. Weigh that against you wanting to use guns as recreational toys, and you’re going to tell me _I’m_ the crazy one? > > How about being honest about what it is you like about guns? How about being honest about the impact you think gun love has on the US as a society? The only time “toys” were mentioned in this thread was by you (and Anaamika, but she wasn’t being hyperbolically dismissive). Nobody is saying that they’re something to be taken lightly and used without proper safety measures. The US has a serious problem with gun violence, but it’s not the guns that are causing it; it’s a meaningless slogan, but in a sense, people DO kill people. Other countries with high gun ownership rates don’t have similar murder rates for lots of reasons such as inner city crime. The differences aren’t due to laws or regulations. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > But I find it very very telling that I grew up with and around guns, among people that actually -had- to use guns as a hunting tool - and none of them then or now have any fondness for guns. You guys love guns because you get to play with them. They’re toys. Right, so you knew some actual hunters who didn’t like guns at all? I’m calling shenanigans. There’s levels of “like,” but I think you might be overstating things a bit, or your personal anecdote is the exception to the rule. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Given the limited utility guns have outside of killing other living things, guns should be regulated and legislated to the hilt. Guns should be really expensive, really really hard to get, and monitored/tracked like license plates for cars, and gun infractions should be punished at least as severely as drunk driving. Only rich people can get them, because poor people can’t be trusted? And your above comment about soliders and LEOs, I do respect them, but is a 19 year old just out of the academy/boot camp really more responsible then your average gun owner? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/197 "2010-06-01T08:51:39Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > The only time “toys” were mentioned in this thread was by you (and Anaamika, but she wasn’t being hyperbolically dismissive). The gun owners in this thread have called shooting guns ‘a recreational past time’. You may not like the terminology, but if you’re playing with guns, guns are toys. > [@](#): > > Only rich people can get them, because poor people can’t be trusted? LOL - I _knew_ that would be the first argument someone brought up. Poor people can’t buy round-the-world cruises or first-class plane tickets either. Sorry, but tough shit; if you’re poor you have to spend more money on things you really need, and less on expensive toys. Guns should be expensive because it should cost a lot of money to buy an expensive toy that was only made to kill. > [@](#): > > And your above comment about soliders and LEOs, I do respect them, but is a 19 year old just out of the academy/boot camp really more responsible then your average gun owner? OK, now I am really laughing. So let’s see - there is nothing wrong with 8yr olds shooting guns and having their own little gun armory, but you have question marks about trained 19yr olds? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/198 "2010-06-01T11:45:25Z")
Guns are toys only if cars, boats, and woodworking tools are toys. If you include them all in as toys, then yes, they’re toys. Your point? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/199 "2010-06-01T12:44:58Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > OK, now I am really laughing. So let’s see - there is nothing wrong with 8yr olds shooting guns and having their own little gun armory, but you have question marks about trained 19yr olds? Do you need some more straw for that strawman you’re building? Your argument is pathetic. I implied this question upthread but now I’m asking it outright. How are guns different from high-powered sports cars? No one needs any more than a ultra-safe high-efficiency 4-cylinder (or less) sedan, so we should completely regulate the car market so sports cars are much more expensive than they currently are. Reckless driving should be punishable the same as drunk driving. For the record, despite you spending all thread essentially calling me a pussy with a dick extension, I mostly agree with you–guns should be traceable to their owners, and gun owners should be licensed for safety and knowledge like car drivers, with classes of ownership corresponding to both difficulty and dangerousness of firearm (I had proposed “sporting/hunting/target-shooting long gun”, “pistols/handguns”, and “military-grade weaponry” as roughly analogous to “car”, “motorcycle permit”, and “CDL”.). > [@](#): > > Look, I think we both agree soldiers and LEO probably should have guns. How about joe-blow public? I don’t agree that soldiers and LEO are any more competent or safe with guns than Joe Blow public. For every one who takes his training and responsibility seriously, there’s one who signed up to “go shoot some sand niggers” or one who thinks his uniform makes him awesome and invincible. > [@](#): > > Why don’t you all try to tell me why you like guns? So far, the only reasons I’ve seen so far have been ‘I like shootin’ guns, they’re recreational toys’. In other words, it’s cool and manly and macho. How about you list some of your hobbies and we’ll make fun of them with bullshit excuses. I don’t shoot because it’s “cool” or “macho”, I shoot because it’s demanding of physical precision and mental gymnastics (since I shoot at tactical courses, where deciding whether a target is to be shot is part of the score) in a way I enjoy. I wouldn’t give a shit if all guns were pink with bows and everyone thought guns were for small-dicked pussies who weren’t real men (sometimes it seems like that describes the SDMB), I’d still shoot them because it’s fun. > [@](#): > > Guns have no other reason for existence other than to shoot other living things. One of my guns was purpose designed to put very accurately placed holes in paper. It isn’t designed to shoot at living things at all, and that’s not its reason for existence. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/200 "2010-06-01T12:50:27Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Right - ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’. > > :rolleyes: Yes, that’s correct. I’ll put my two Engineering degrees up against your…whatever…and state that without humans using them, incidents where guns kill people on their own accord are vanishingly small. > [@](#): > > Look, I think we both agree soldiers and LEO probably should have guns. How about joe-blow public? Why don’t you all try to tell me _why_ you like guns? So far, the only reasons I’ve seen so far have been ‘I like shootin’ guns, they’re recreational toys’. In other words, it’s cool and manly and macho. I “like” my guns because I’ve been the victim of violent crime on multiple occasions and unlike SOME, I choose to take responsibility for my own safety and carry to defend myself. I know a misogynist wouldn’t understand, when everything looks like a metal penis to them, but I refuse to be raped again and have nothing to say about it. > [@](#): > > Guns have no other reason for existence other than to shoot other living things. Demonstrably a false statement. > [@](#): > > You see the death and destruction your gun love causes. Cite the “death and destruction” I’ve personally caused, or retract. > [@](#): > > Given the limited utility guns have outside of killing other living things, Wait, up above you say they have “no other reason for existence…”, and now you back off on it? You ducked and covered on the whole why you used a misogynistic sexual slur to describe female gun owners. That’s going to follow you around this message board from now on, like a piece of toilet tissue stuck to your shoe. Provided you don’t bore me and join the others on my 137 person-long Ignore list. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=11)