# Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727 "2010-05-25T18:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/201 "2010-06-01T13:13:23Z")
EDIT: Adding stuff in based on other posters. Sorry for the long post. One definition of toy: _3. An amusement; a pastime_ Ergo: Cars are a primary mode of transportation. For most people, probably not toys. High-performance sports cars are more expensive, and insurance is more expensive for such cars. DUCY? Boats used by the Coast Guard are not toys. Boats used as recreation are toys. Woodworking tools used by someone making furniture for their job are tools. Woodworking tools used by someone as a hobby are toys. Guns used by police officers and soldiers are tools. Guns used by Joe Six-Pack are toys. It really isn’t a difficult concept. You’re trying to change the terminology because it makes you feel better about having a gun, but if you’re going to call ‘shootin’ guns’ a ‘recreational activity’, guns are toys. You can try and make fun of my hobbies all you want. None of my hobbies involve equipment made only to kill. I can see shooting at a shooting range, specifically with guns made for use at a shooting range. Probably not my cup of tea, but not a problem. Reckless driving -should- be punished as severely as drunk driving. Guns are dangerous. Kids shouldn’t be handling them. They should not be widely available. They should be expensive, very hard to get, very very much a PITA to own, regulated to the hilt, and gun infractions should be punished severely. Buying/selling a gun should not be easier than buying a car. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/202 "2010-06-01T13:13:30Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Look, I think we both agree soldiers and LEO probably should have guns. How about joe-blow public? Why don’t you all try to tell me _why_ you like guns? I am Joe-blow Public, and the reason I “like” being able to own a gun is that I hate the idea of the government saying “shut up and do what you’re told, you goddamn peasant”. It’s about empowerment. The single most common theme I’ve seen in posts in favor of gun control is the sheer contempt with which the intelligence and responsibility of the average citizen is regarded. Apparently the social philosophy espoused by Thomas Hobbes- that the public are a mob of savages only kept in check by the iron fist of authority- is alive and well. Just what exactly makes soldiers and law enforcement officers more trustworthy with firearms than any given member of the public? I can only think of three things: [ul] [li]Before they’re allowed to begin training, they undergo a rigorous background check.[/li][li]By undergoing and completing a long and intense period of training, they demonstrate that they’re knowledgable on how to use guns safely and responsibly, and that they’ve demonstrated a committment to obeying the law.[/li][li]While serving as police officers, their character and actions are under continuous monitering and review.[/li][/ul]So which of those things are somehow inapplicable to public gun owners? If you decry the irresponsible use of guns, maybe the answer is more responsibility, not fewer guns. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/203 "2010-06-01T13:56:40Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Yes, that’s correct. I’ll put my two Engineering degrees up against your…whatever…and state that without humans using them, incidents where guns kill people on their own accord are vanishingly small. Good thing you said “vanishingly small” and not “impossible.” [Dog shoots man in back during hunting trip](http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/02/01/1294435/dog-shoots-man-in-back-during.html) 🙂 [URL=“[http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/02/01/1294435/dog-shoots-man-in-back-during.html](http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/02/01/1294435/dog-shoots-man-in-back-during.html)”] ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/204 "2010-06-01T14:05:15Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Good thing you said “vanishingly small” and not “impossible.” > > [Dog shoots man in back during hunting trip](http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/02/01/1294435/dog-shoots-man-in-back-during.html) > > 🙂 > [URL=“[http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/02/01/1294435/dog-shoots-man-in-back-during.html](http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/02/01/1294435/dog-shoots-man-in-back-during.html)”] Every time I read a story like that, I get a twinge somewhere between “maybe the gun ban types are right” and “Dogbert was right”, usually the latter. > [@dogbert](#): > > I think Americans should be allowed to own guns. And bazookas, and rocket launchers too. But I should be the only one with the ammo, because frankly I wouldn’t trust the rest of you goobers with anything more dangerous than string. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/205 "2010-06-01T14:07:16Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > You can try and make fun of my hobbies all you want. None of my hobbies involve equipment made only to kill. Neither do I, asshole. Pretending all guns are purpose built murder machines doesn’t change the facts of the situation. But seriously, cowboy the fuck up and tell us what YOU do for fun, aside from make an ass of yourself on a message board? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/206 "2010-06-01T15:57:22Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The single most common theme I’ve seen in posts in favor of gun control is the sheer contempt with which the intelligence and responsibility of the average citizen is regarded. Apparently the social philosophy espoused by Thomas Hobbes- that the public are a mob of savages only kept in check by the iron fist of authority- is alive and well. Well, have you seen murder rates in the US lately compared to the rest of the world? Just sayin’ > [@](#): > > If you decry the irresponsible use of guns, maybe the answer is more responsibility, not fewer guns. Believe it or not, I happen to agree: - Background checks before any gun can be purchased - long/intense training required to shoot / own / purchase. Recurring training required every couple of years - annual fee for a person’s gun owner permit - annual licensing fee for each gun owned - minimum age of 16 to shoot/own a gun - all guns traceable to an owner; if the gun is involved in an accident or crime, the owner can be held responsible regardless of who pulled the trigger - heavy sales tax on any and all gun sales All I can think of for now. As I’ve said before: guns should be expensive, and a constant PITA to keep. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/207 "2010-06-01T16:47:03Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, have you seen murder rates in the US lately compared to the rest of the world? Just sayin’ > Believe it or not, I happen to agree: > > - Background checks before any gun can be purchased > - long/intense training required to shoot / own / purchase. Recurring training required every couple of years > - annual fee for a person’s gun owner permit > - annual licensing fee for each gun owned > - minimum age of 16 to shoot/own a gun > - all guns traceable to an owner; if the gun is involved in an accident or crime, the owner can be held responsible regardless of who pulled the trigger > - heavy sales tax on any and all gun sales > All I can think of for now. As I’ve said before: guns should be expensive, and a constant PITA to keep. I’ll tell you what–if you apply the exact same logic and rules to sports cars, I’ll buy it. Why a punitive sales tax? Does that make me somehow a better gun owner, or does it just increase the number of illegal smuggled-in guns because it forces a black market? Basic rifles and firearms are not hard to make for a even halfway competent metalsmith–automatic guns and conversions? Certainly. Reliable firearms? Yes, difficult? Zip gun to shoot that fucker down the street or your cheating wife? Not expensive at all, and the more you artificially inflate the price of normal firearms ownership, the more illegal ones will appear on the market. Prohibition doesn’t work in a democracy, we’ve proven than with alcohol and we’re proving it now with drugs. Why a blanket rule on owner responsibility? If you steal my locked and alarmed car and crash it into a school bus, should I be responsible? (certainly I should be charged with contributory negligence if said car (or gun) was unlocked with the keys in, but that’s not what we’re talking about) Why recurring training for guns and not cars? Why more intense training for guns than for cars? Are you charging the license fee per-gun on collection pieces or actively fired and used guns? Is this going to be nominal like car registration or are you trying to punish people who have the gall to own guns again–if the latter, have you taken into account the black market effects of artificial price increases? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/208 "2010-06-01T16:51:23Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’ll tell you what–if you apply the exact same logic and rules to sports cars, I’ll buy it. It could be argued that those same rules already to apply to cars, sport or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/209 "2010-06-01T16:58:08Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Right - ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’. > > :rolleyes: Why roll your eyes, no response to the obviously correct statement that inanimate objects are not fully self sufficient and malevolent beings? > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Look, I think we both agree soldiers and LEO probably should have guns. How about joe-blow public? Why don’t you all try to tell me _why_ you like guns? So far, the only reasons I’ve seen so far have been ‘I like shootin’ guns, they’re recreational toys’. In other words, it’s cool and manly and macho. Despite your repeated attempts to “hick it up,” ‘shooting guns’ is a perfectly acceptable activity. In the United States, and the Free World, things have to be banned, not allowed. That is, until there’s sufficient demonstrable reasoning behind banning something, it’s allowed. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Guns have no other reason for existence other than to shoot other living things. This is easily proven false a hundred ways. I’ve got 14 firearms in my house that have never shot a living thing, and they never will so long as I own them (here’s hoping). > [@DragonAsh](#): > > You see the death and destruction your gun love causes. You see the effect it has on our society. Weigh that against you wanting to use guns as recreational toys, and you’re going to tell me _I’m_ the crazy one? You see destruction, and you see an effect on our society that I simply do not. It’s fantastic that you think guns cause it, but I don’t see the connection. I see guns used in crimes more frequently in the USA than the UK, but I also see hands, fists and baseball bats used more frequently in the USA than the UK. Does that mean the problem is with our hands, fists and baseball bats, or does it mean that the problem is our inner cities? If you also knew much about the USA, you’d know that the vast majority of violence with firearms (90%+) happens in an astronomically small portion of our country (less than 10% of our geography) and in some of the most gun-restrictive areas of our country (LA, CA - NY, NY - Detroit, Michigan - Chicago, IL - etc). > [@DragonAsh](#): > > How about being honest about what it is you like about guns? Because they’re cathartic, useful (although hopefully I’ll never _have_ to use them) and a perfectly reasonable passtime. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > How about being honest about the impact you think gun love has on the US as a society? I don’t “gun love,” but thanks for trying. And once again, you read far more into inanimate objects than I do. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’m not trying to take your guns away. Like smoking, drinking, gambling, or any other potential vice, that’s up to personal choice. But I find it very very telling that I grew up with and around guns, among people that actually -had- to use guns as a hunting tool - and none of them then or now have any fondness for guns. You guys love guns because you get to play with them. They’re toys. And I think it’s very, very telling that you made up… rather, are the only one who knows these mythical people. I’ve lived in quite a few areas of the country (admittedly, never Colorado or Alaska – although I do have friends in both) and no one I know shares the particularly warped sentiment of reality the people you knew did. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Given the limited utility guns have outside of killing other living things, guns should be regulated and legislated to the hilt. Guns should be really expensive, really really hard to get, and monitored/tracked like license plates for cars, and gun infractions should be punished at least as severely as drunk driving. The first part (expense) is a piss poor idea, however I’ll address the last (which is decent) in a moment. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > The gun owners in this thread have called shooting guns ‘a recreational past time’. You may not like the terminology, but if you’re playing with guns, guns are toys. As I explained upthread, it’s not about the word itself, it’s about the connotations of the word. A novelty item is a better description, and doesn’t have the reckless connotations that a toy does. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > LOL - I _knew_ that would be the first argument someone brought up. Poor people can’t buy round-the-world cruises or first-class plane tickets either. Sorry, but tough shit; if you’re poor you have to spend more money on things you really need, and less on expensive toys. Guns should be expensive because it should cost a lot of money to buy an expensive toy that was only made to kill. Just because some of us use them as recreational items doesn’t mean that those of us who use them for self defense don’t deserve to have them. You’re conflating all gun owners with some of the gun owners who have posted in this thread. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > OK, now I am really laughing. So let’s see - there is nothing wrong with 8yr olds shooting guns and having their own little gun armory, but you have question marks about trained 19yr olds? Those 8 year olds shoot under strict adult supervision, much in the same way that 19 year old shot under strict adult supervision. And you still didn’t answer the question. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, have you seen murder rates in the US lately compared to the rest of the world? Just sayin’ Yeah, and I’ve seen the ones that don’t use guns as well. Even if you completely factor out firearm murders, you still have a higher murder rate than other countries (and that ignores the fact that banning firearms wouldn’t make firearm homicides go away, since criminals don’t exactly care about the law… also, they’d just murder with other implements). > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Believe it or not, I happen to agree: > > - Background checks before any gun can be purchased Already required. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > - long/intense training required to shoot / own / purchase. Recurring training required every couple of years Impractical, but I’m not entirely against it if it can be shown to work efficiently. However, on a philosophical standpoint, I’m against any central database of gun owners/owned firearms. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > - annual fee for a person’s gun owner permit Ridiculous. There’s absolutely no need for an annual fee – especially if you make it expensive as you stated up thread. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > - annual licensing fee for each gun owned That’s absolutely ridiculous. Why should there be a license fee for each gun owned? With cars, there’s a reason – there needs to be a centrally maintained database that costs money to maintain, and the excess revenues go towards roads, etc. But with firearms, you’re taxing for the fuck of it, and it’s unreasonable. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > - minimum age of 16 to shoot/own a gun I’m not for this. It’s already required to be 18 to own a gun unless it’s your parents and you own it in the same way a minor owns an automobile (namely, it’s not in his/her name, they’re just the primary user). I think it’s ridiculous to restrict what a parent may or may not do with their child, especially considering that shooting a firearm is only potentially risky if you’re reckless, which the majority of firearm owners are not (as evidenced by the proportionately low rates of accidental shootings in the USA, where there are some hundred million gun owners). > [@DragonAsh](#): > > - all guns traceable to an owner; if the gun is involved in an accident or crime, the owner can be held responsible regardless of who pulled the trigger Again, I’m against a central database of gun owners/firearms, but in theory it’s a good idea. I certainly believe that if you don’t report a firearm stolen, it’s a bad thing. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > - heavy sales tax on any and all gun sales And this is where we will definitely disagree. There’s no _reason_ to tax firearms, first of all. We obviously disagree on what taxes should be used for (Me thinking that they should be used for government revenues, and to pay for things that are specifically related to the tax. Gas tax, fighting greenhouse effects, building roads, etc. Car tax, building roads, etc, alcohol tax, fighting the adverse effects of alcohol via alcohol recovery programs, etc), where you think taxes should be levied 'cause the government feels like it. Second, you say that the “toys” should be taxed, but they’re not all toys. Many people use them for self defense or hunting. Those that use them for hunting often _need_ the low expense, high value meat that comes from hunting. Missing a season can make or break their annual budget. I’ve used the example of my Aunt, Uncle and their two children before, who operate at a constant budget shortfall due to their eldest sons continual medical problems. Every. Single. Dollar. Makes a huge difference to them. “Heavily” taxing the purchase of a firearm would put it out of their budget (actually, they own several, family heirlooms), or licensing them would bankrupt them. It’s an unreasonable imposition to put on some of the poorest, literally sustenance hunters in our country. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > All I can think of for now. As I’ve said before: guns should be expensive, and a constant PITA to keep. They should neither be expensive, nor a PITA. You want them to be expensive and a pain in the ass to punish people who decide they want a firearm, and I don’t want to be punished just because of your lack of understanding. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/210 "2010-06-01T18:24:13Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, have you seen murder rates in the US lately compared to the rest of the world? Just sayin’ [Here’s one link](http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/guns-crime-swiss.html). I know it has an agenda, so you’re welcome to search some more, but the fact is that the murder rate in the US is high for a reason that can’t be explained by just guns. We could ban every gun tomorrow and the rate would not decrease dramatically because a) guns wouldn’t completely go away b) criminals wouldn’t comply c) guns aren’t the full problem. > [@](#): > > Believe it or not, I happen to agree: > > - Background checks before any gun can be purchased > - long/intense training required to shoot / own / purchase. Recurring training required every couple of years > - annual fee for a person’s gun owner permit > - annual licensing fee for each gun owned > - minimum age of 16 to shoot/own a gun > - all guns traceable to an owner; if the gun is involved in an accident or crime, the owner can be held responsible regardless of who pulled the trigger > - heavy sales tax on any and all gun sales > All I can think of for now. As I’ve said before: guns should be expensive, and a constant PITA to keep. Most of these were covered well above, but: Congratulations, you just propped up the black market. Some gang member who wants to shoot someone can find the right people and buy one for cash, and not have to worry about all these laws and fees. Is he supposed to worry about increased punitive measures? Deterrence is usually pretty weak in these cases. Why 16 to **use**? You wouldn’t think that someone slightly younger can shoot in an adults presence, so that responsible shooting safety can be taught? A sixteen year old is less likely to want to be seen in their parent’s presence in public, and maybe a bit more headstrong and cocky. In a lot of places, you can be held responsible for your gun. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/211 "2010-06-01T18:27:59Z")
No, no, guys. Only the rich should own guns. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/212 "2010-06-01T19:46:49Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > It could be argued that those same rules already to apply to cars, sport or otherwise. Some do, but not others–mostly the punitive taxation he discusses. I’m on record as thinking cars and guns provide a compelling case (ranges from near-necessity to luxury, ranges of difficulty and danger, common theft target) for being treated nearly the same, with reasonable but firm requirements for training and licensing. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/213 "2010-06-01T19:52:50Z")
NETA: What I don’t agree with is punishing responsible gun owners (the majority by far) with taxes or increased scrutiny for no reason other than “guns are bad, m’kay?”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/214 "2010-06-01T19:54:53Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > It could be argued that those same rules already to apply to cars, sport or otherwise. Well, not all of them. Background checks - nope. Anyone can get a driver’s license, included paroled murderers and rapists. Recurring training - nah. At least not for drivers who have clean or fairly-clean records. I understand some places require retesting past a certain age, though. Owner responsibility - nah. If my car is stolen or is borrowed by someone else and gets into a lethal accident (or even a crime), the car might conceivably be confiscated, but I personally wouldn’t face criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/215 "2010-06-02T22:10:44Z")
One more fact to be considered is that guns are easy to build (for a trained person). I buy the barrels and trigger parts and machine the other parts myself. A metal lathe and mill are nice to use but a look at gunbuilding sites will show what can be done with a drill and handfiles. So one thing the ban (excessive tax, permit, etc) people need to know, guns don’t appear magically, they are a manufactured product. One that can be benchmade. And that, kind sir, is another reason to like guns. I enjoy making steel parts that fit together within .001s of an inch, have the correct clearance for function, are properly heat treated for strength and wear resistance, and can withstand tens of thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/216 "2010-06-02T23:31:17Z")
“Basic rifles and firearms are not hard to make for a even halfway competent metalsmith” I see Zeriel has already made this point. Remember, making something illegal doesn’t make it go away, it only makes it more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/217 "2010-06-03T02:06:27Z")
Let’s assume I take you at your word, **FE3O4ENAIL**. I don’t know that I would have posted what is, with few exceptions, a Federal crime, but maybe that’s just me. Unless you are using the trigger group out of one of a very few firearms (where the trigger group is legally considered to be the firearm) or you have the appropriate permissions from the BATFE (the appropriate FFL and SOT), you have just confessed publicly to a very serious crime. But again, that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/218 "2010-06-03T02:27:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Let’s assume I take you at your word, **FE3O4ENAIL**. I don’t know that I would have posted what is, with few exceptions, a Federal crime, but maybe that’s just me. > > Unless you are using the trigger group out of one of a very few firearms (where the trigger group is legally considered to be the firearm) or you have the appropriate permissions from the BATFE (the appropriate FFL and SOT), you have just confessed publicly to a very serious crime. > > But again, that’s just me. Actually, you’re allowed to produce one non-serialed firearm per year without needing a class (4?) Federal Firearms License for manufacture. ETA: It must be destroyed upon your death, however, since the firearm may not be transferred, sold, given or in any other way change ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/219 "2010-06-03T13:09:37Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Actually, you’re allowed to produce one non-serialed firearm per year without needing a class (4?) Federal Firearms License for manufacture. > > ETA: It must be destroyed upon your death, however, since the firearm may not be transferred, sold, given or in any other way change ownership. I don’t mean to be a Suspicious Allouicious, but can you link me to the CFR which allows this? I’ve never heard of this before. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/220 "2010-06-03T15:04:10Z")
Guns are not bad, in fact they are pretty harmless and good fun for parties. They are a neat party trick for every chidrens birthday part and you can just randomly tag people with it. The once that got tagged will show up with some red spots. Everyone should have one or two, they are like the blender or TV - brilliant and complety harmless - after all, it’s not guns killing people, right! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=12)