# Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727 "2010-05-25T18:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/241 "2010-06-04T01:30:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Since the primary purpose of a gun is to kill living things, it is important that these tools be well regulated, so that living things are not inadvertently killed. You are incorrect. Specifically, the primary purpose of my gun is to shoot clay discs that fly through the air. It is specialized for this in several ways. It is named for the sport, (A ‘Trap Special’), has an exceptionally long barrel for a shotgun, (32 inches), and is a single-shot break-action weapon. (Extra accurate, and unlike Skeet, trap deals with single targets.) While it could be used to kill a person, it is roughly as poorly designed to do so as your average crowbar, screwdriver, or automobile. It’s four feet _long_, when you get down to it, and kicks like a mule. Given the above facts, and the known penetrating power of birdshot, it’s pretty much designed _not_ to kill people. I’d have to have someone, say, further than 25 feet away, but closer than 50, to actually do lethal damage. Ball’s in your court. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/242 "2010-06-04T06:15:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Just wanted to add that carrying a handgun could save your life if you ever encounter [A Brain with Tentacles](http://axecop.com/index.php/acask/read/ask_axe_cop_37/). > > 😃 Okay, that comic is both adorable and awesome. I guess I’m still 5 years old because the random plot changes don’t phase me too much. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/243 "2010-06-04T07:22:44Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You are incorrect. Specifically, the primary purpose of my gun is to shoot clay discs that fly through the air. It is specialized for this in several ways. It is named for the sport, (A ‘Trap Special’), has an exceptionally long barrel for a shotgun, (32 inches), and is a single-shot break-action weapon. (Extra accurate, and unlike Skeet, trap deals with single targets.) While it could be used to kill a person, it is roughly as poorly designed to do so as your average crowbar, screwdriver, or automobile. > > It’s four feet _long_, when you get down to it, and kicks like a mule. Given the above facts, and the known penetrating power of birdshot, it’s pretty much designed _not_ to kill people. I’d have to have someone, say, further than 25 feet away, but closer than 50, to actually do lethal damage. > > Ball’s in your court. What came first, the clay disc, or the gun? > [@Zeriel](#): > > Yeah, and literally every time you post I have a picture of you urinating on a Star of David while breaking and entering, which at least has some factual basis in the stupid shit you’ve posted in the past. > > Got anything besides gratuitous insults, now that we’ve exchanged a set? One man’s gratuitous insult is another man’s playful prod. Now stop waving your dick…I mean gun, about; you’re upsetting the patrons. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/244 "2010-06-04T10:13:39Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What came first, the clay disc, or the gun? The clay disc. By a few centuries. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/245 "2010-06-04T10:26:34Z")
> [@storyguide3](#): > > Did you even read the damn thread? 😕 > > Guns (of their own volition) don’t kill people. Guns handled improperly by people can kill people (frequently those doing the improper handling). Guns used with deadly intent can kill people. Guns hurled with great force at the heads of people could probably kill people. > > I don’t think anyone in this thread (who isn’t baiting or being a complete idiot) is advocating that untrained, and/or unsupervised people should be using firearms willy nilly. They are certainly not advocating that guns should be used as party favours for the rugrats. To keep bringing that up is poor form. > > Are guns perfectly safe? Unattended and left alone, sure they are. In the hands of someone who is responsible and properly trained in their use, yes generally they are (though accidents can happen). In the hands of people without training, too much drinking or some other impediment to rational thought (including idiocy), then not so much. But the same can be said of a car, knife or nail gun. Your point? > > ETA: Canadian, non-gun-owner speaking. YES. Idiots should not be allowed to have guns. Accidents happen. Bringing up the car, YES people drink and drive - it is the same a letting a loaded gun on the bedroom floor for the kids to pick it up… it can and it will happen. So, why are people doing stupid things like this? Because they are idiots. Would you defend drunk driving, as you are defending the inproper use of guns and make excuses? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/246 "2010-06-04T12:30:41Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Would you defend drunk driving, as you are defending the inproper use of guns and make excuses? Try this one on for size: only a special corps of government chauffers should be allowed to drive. Because you can’t trust regular citizens not to be irresponsible drunks. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/247 "2010-06-04T12:56:43Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Try this one on for size: only a special corps of government chauffers should be allowed to drive. Because you can’t trust regular citizens not to be irresponsible drunks. :rolleyes: That is why God invented Busses, Taxis, Cabs and the maybe the Train - in short public transport. There are also Cops pulling people over, when they do a DUI. And why exactly do you need a LOADED firearm in reach of children again? ---
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/248 "2010-06-04T12:58:48Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > YES. Idiots should not be allowed to have guns. Accidents happen. > > Bringing up the car, YES people drink and drive - it is the same a letting a loaded gun on the bedroom floor for the kids to pick it up… it can and it will happen. > > So, why are people doing stupid things like this? Because they are idiots. > > Would you defend drunk driving, as you are defending the inproper use of guns and make excuses? Did you even read my damn post? :rolleyes: Please point out the exact words I used where I was “defending the inproper use of guns and make excuses”. Actually I seem to remember saying…let me look it up… hard to find…oh yeah, right in my post: > [@storyguide3](#): > > I don’t think anyone in this thread (who isn’t baiting or being a complete idiot) is advocating that untrained, and/or unsupervised people should be using firearms willy nilly. They are certainly not advocating that guns should be used as party favours for the rugrats. I await your intelligent and well thought out response. I will not be holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/249 "2010-06-04T13:35:31Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > One man’s gratuitous insult is another man’s playful prod. Now stop waving your dick…I mean gun, about; you’re upsetting the patrons. Y’know, after you toolboxes use a gratuitously stupid pseudo-insult for the seven millionth time, I don’t think I have to accept your assertion that you’re kidding. Thief. Anti-semite. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/250 "2010-06-04T13:40:59Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > That is why God invented Busses, Taxis, Cabs and the maybe the Train - in short public transport. > There are also Cops pulling people over, when they do a DUI. There are also cops arresting people for illegally owned or recklessly discharged firearms. Yay, we’re effectively equivalent–if you don’t want to or can’t use a gun (car), you can go to the store and buy your food and get a dog for home defense or whatever (bus, taxi, etc.). If you elect to use your gun (car) irresponsibly, the cops will put your ass in jail (arrest you for DUI). > [@](#): > > And why exactly do you need a LOADED firearm in reach of children again? No one here’s advocated anything close to that. Near-universal condemnation for someone who leaves a loaded gun where ANYONE unauthorized can get it, let alone a child. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/251 "2010-06-04T14:52:03Z")
> [@storyguide3](#): > > Did you even read my damn post? :rolleyes: What does your post have anything to do with mine? You quoted me, remember? My first post in this thread was obviously a sarcastic idiotic post about the stupidity about firearms in general, this passed by you, fine… no problem, move on and get a life. I’ll bet you 10 cents, that these people where claiming to be handling firearms properly and defending the right to bear arms and that it is perfectly safe to have firearms, before this happened. > [@storyguide3](#): > > Please point out the exact words I used where I was “defending the inproper use of guns and make excuses”. Why do I have to? However, since you like it so much to quote me…read this: > [@storyguide3](#): > > Are guns perfectly safe? Unattended and left alone, sure they are. In the hands of someone who is responsible and properly trained in their use, yes generally they are (though accidents can happen). In the hands of people without training, too much drinking or some other impediment to rational thought (including idiocy), then not so much. So you are saying that somebody who is trained has accidents with them, right? Since they just happen, correct? So this is also safe and proper, correct? So the Soccer mum showing up with a sidearm to a collect the kids and incidentally gets killed by her husband later on - just accidents? Yes accidents waiting to happen. There was a thread about this in the dope as well. Or that idiot Taxi driver in the UK that gunned down 12 random people this week. Sure all untrained and irresponsible gun owners. Yes, you are right. All headshots, completely untrained and insane, that’s the UK, much harder to get a permit in the UK in the first place. Germany, some school kid gets a gun and shoots his class members. Single shot, not an automatic weapon at all… yes, all untrained and irresponsible people. These are all just innocent accidents. Also I conclude by your statement, that trained people don’t drink (alcohol) and do stupid things. Correct? > [@storyguide3](#): > > I await your intelligent and well thought out response. I will not be holding my breath. Don’t hold your breath please; simple because you got no idea if and when I might be replying to your post and nobody can hold their breath for that long… no doubt that you can, I would never doubt you in any way, ever again… then again, did I ever? What my point is? Firearms are unsafe - no matter what or who is having them at home. The only sad thing about this is, that in some parts of the world, you just have to have some. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/252 "2010-06-04T14:54:16Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Or that idiot Taxi driver in the UK that gunned down 12 random people this week. Sure all untrained and irresponsible gun owners. Yes, you are right. All headshots, completely untrained and insane, that’s the UK, much harder to get a permit in the UK in the first place. Here is my only question–would there be calls for banning cars if that taxi driver had just run his taxi up on the sidewalk in London on a busy day and ran over 12 random people? Probably not. There’s a huge, to my way of thinking completely idiotic given the relative numbers of deaths caused by each, blind spot with regard to the highly deadly things that we use to move around every day. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/253 "2010-06-04T14:57:05Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > No one here’s advocated anything close to that. Near-universal condemnation for someone who leaves a loaded gun where ANYONE unauthorized can get it, let alone a child. Maybe not here on the dope, but the parent leaving it there, certainly thought that it was a wise decision. Certainly a lack of proper judgment on their part. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/254 "2010-06-04T14:57:24Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > The clay disc. By a few centuries. Why? Did they shoot them down with spears and bows and arrows? Or are you talking about those clay discs they ate their food off? ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/255 "2010-06-04T14:59:28Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Here is my only question–would there be calls for banning cars if that taxi driver had just run his taxi up on the sidewalk in London on a busy day and ran over 12 random people? Probably not. There’s a huge, to my way of thinking completely idiotic given the relative numbers of deaths caused by each, blind spot with regard to the highly deadly things that we use to move around every day. What is the purpose of a car? What usefull purpose has a gun? There certainly is a difference… one is transport, a somewhat necessity in life these days. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/256 "2010-06-04T14:59:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Here is my only question–would there be calls for banning cars if that taxi driver had just run his taxi up on the sidewalk in London on a busy day and ran over 12 random people? Probably not. There’s a huge, to my way of thinking completely idiotic given the relative numbers of deaths caused by each, blind spot with regard to the highly deadly things that we use to move around every day. Taxi’s have other uses besides being able to plough into groups of people. You might be able to use a gun butt to hammer in a nail, but what else can you do with a gun that doesn’t involve pointing it and firing at something? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/257 "2010-06-04T15:02:41Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Y’know, after you toolboxes use a gratuitously stupid pseudo-insult for the seven millionth time, I don’t think I have to accept your assertion that you’re kidding. Thief. Anti-semite. After the 7 millionth time, you should be immune to it. Wuss. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/258 "2010-06-04T15:03:45Z")
For the record, in 2007, deaths from car accidents and homicides were in the vicinity of 41,000 in the US. Deaths from gun accidents and homicides were a bit over 13,000. There are around 250 million cars in the US. There are around 200 million guns in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/259 "2010-06-04T15:07:15Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > What is the purpose of a car? > > What usefull purpose has a gun? > > There certainly is a difference… one is transport, a somewhat necessity in life these days. Okay, so let’s go back to my proposal that all passenger cars absolutely must be 4-cylinder 1.2L four-door sedans with enough safety equipment to reduce accidental car deaths by at least half. You don’t need a truck–you can rent one. You don’t need a car that can do more than 65 mph–there’s no useful purpose to that, since that’s the speed limit, and anything higher is obviously dangerous. If you want to argue utilitarianism, you’re barking up a weird tree. While we’re at it, better ban powered lawn mowers–they’re dangerous, they have no purpose given that push mowers work. This is just the “What I want to do is obviously necessary to life, what you want to do is obviously not necessary.” I walk and bus to work, so why doesn’t everyone? Ban privately owned death cars. > [@Doughbag](#): > > Maybe not here on the dope, but the parent leaving it there, certainly thought that it was a wise decision. > > Certainly a lack of proper judgment on their part. I absolutely agree that those parents should be charged with something severe and have gun ownership rights revoked. I’ve been on the record as saying I wouldn’t mind it being a legal requirement to have your guns stored safely before you could purchase firearms, and unsafely (that is, not locked in a combo/biometric lock safe or with two separate keying mechanisms) stored firearms should be felony negligence if they’re involved in an accident or crime. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > After the 7 millionth time, you should be immune to it. Wuss. Why? It’s the pit, I have no reason not to bring up that you’re an anti-semetic ex-con who probably just wants guns banned so you and your cronies don’t get shot when you’re trying to freeload by taking my hard-earned stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727/260 "2010-06-04T15:10:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > There’s a huge, to my way of thinking completely idiotic given the relative numbers of deaths caused by each, blind spot with regard to the highly deadly things that we use to move around every day. You also forgot to mention Water - People die of unclean water as well, we might ban this too. Planes, Ships, etc… There is also FOOD, people die of food poising. But I see your point, Firearms in private homes are just more important then these items. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-kid-gets-a-hold-of-parents-loaded-gun-thread/540727.md?page=14)